Human Resources Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2009

[Dave Ward]

Just to add a little bit to that, I'll reference strategy number 12 of the provincial plan:

There may also be ways in which the federal government and municipal governments could encourage landlords and developers to create additional housing options.

One of the additional references at the bottom is:

The federal government could also play a role in encouraging greater availability of housing options. Its most effective tool is the Income Tax Act, which could be used to provide tax incentives to developers and landlords.

In terms of our relationship with the homelessness partnering strategy, we manage those resources here in Edmonton. I've heard from previous board members from the Edmonton Housing Trust Fund and the Edmonton Joint Planning Committee that the work and the support of the HPS department was essential to get us to a place where we could actually start to have these kinds of coordinated efforts at a provincial level and a municipal level. There's been a lot of good work, and based on those relationships, I think there's opportunity to advance on that good work and create some other positive solutions.

[Tony Martin, NDP, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

I'll just ask another question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Go ahead.

[Tony Martin, NDP, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

I just want to touch on a couple of things, one thing that you previously said and one from just now, on being creative in the way we respond and some of the logjams, the roadblocks. I was in Victoria when I went to Calgary and back, and in Victoria, another beautiful city where you would not for a second imagine that there would be people sleeping on the streets, there were just hundreds of them. They couldn't open up church basements fast enough to take them in during the winter. The really troubling reality there was the number of disabled people living rough. It was startling, and shocking, and depressing all at once.

In Victoria, we had a forum and we had co-op housing folks come, and they had the plans, they had the money, but they couldn't get the land because it was too expensive. They made a suggestion then that we look at the whole taxation regime and see how we might make it more lucrative for people who have land and are sitting on it and they don't want to sell it because of the impact on them regarding taxation. At that time, Denise Savoie, who was our member there, actually brought back to the House and to our caucus some suggestions.

It goes back to the question I asked earlier today: how do we get a discussion started on taxation such that we could reorganize it in a way that benefits not only those who work hard and generate the wealth and deserve a good return on that, but also those at the bottom end, who also participate in meaningful ways, but maybe not quite so valued? How do we rearrange our taxation system so that this type of thing could be done?

Do you have anything further on that?

I think that recommendation is important. Where did we hear that? Somebody made a recommendation in Vancouver where they talked about this notion of making it more financially attractive for developers, for example, to do affordable housing, because they're not doing it.

[Wendy Myshak]

One option they use in Great Britain that has been successful there, and in Australia is public-private partnerships, which is exactly what you're talking about. Developers are encouraged to either give a discount on their building or keep the building and lease it to the government, or what have you, or give land at a reduced tax rate or tax cut or tax benefit. That program has been very successful in Great Britain and in Australia. That's something to consider.

[Dave Ward]

Let me add something that I think we referenced in our speaking notes: the cross-governmental discussion and the opportunity there to speak with the province and the city on that shared issue. I know the group you'll be dealing with this afternoon, ECOHH, has also experienced some challenges in terms of some provincial and municipal tax issues.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you. We're now going to move over to Ms. Cadman for the last round.

The floor is yours.

[Dona Cadman, Conservative, Surrey North, BC]

Thank you for coming.

Can you tell me what the average age is of the homeless on the street?

[Wendy Myshak]

We have an average age, but the average, if you want to put a face to homelessness in Edmonton, would be single men between 25 and 55.

[Dona Cadman, Conservative, Surrey North, BC]

Wow.

This is for Dave. I think we agree that there should be a national housing strategy. Do you think there should be a separate housing strategy for first nations people living off reserve?

[Dave Ward]

Thank you for that question, Dona.

I have experienced the politics of the on-reserve experience and have had the opportunity to work here in Edmonton to help develop, through the urban aboriginal strategy, which the federal government operates, programs through the federal interlocutor. The pre-existing organization, the Edmonton Housing Trust Fund, managed the urban aboriginal strategy. I was fortunate enough to be the urban aboriginal community coordinator for them.

We worked hard to try to create an entity, and the focus of that entity—at least, one of the goals I had—was to deal with inter-governmentalism. For first nations people in Edmonton, it's very difficult to determine with whom, among the orders of government, to have the conversation about addressing the needs of the community members here. Obviously some first nations communities work very hard to ensure that their off-reserve urban members' needs are addressed and represented. But the vast majority place the major focus on their on-reserve issues.

If there is a strategy for the urban population, I have two recommendations.

To split the limited resources when addressing homelessness could be a challenge. In the homelessness partnering strategy in Vancouver they've attempted to do that: there's an aboriginal component to the HPS resources. I think there's an organization called Luma that has been established for the aboriginal community. The resources offered to that organization are limited in scope, and the ability to have a larger impact is also limited. I don't see any other governance model like Homeward Trust Edmonton across Canada. I think it's an opportunity for us to analyze how we give urban aboriginal people an opportunity to be part of the discussion, to be part of the decision-making body.

We have a nominating committee, which I talked about earlier. I've had discussions with our executive director Susan McGee about this, and I don't think we could have possibly picked through any process of appointment to that board a more dynamic group of individuals of passion to help us end homelessness. I would encourage some understanding and examination of governance models like ours. From what I have been able to research so far, there is no other governance model that is inclusive of that population to the degree that we are, without having a political obligation to the direct appointments.

I think that urban population needs a voice in some form, but I don't necessarily believe we need to create another political voice for it.

What do I consider myself first in this country? Am I a first nations person or a Canadian? I'm by far a Canadian before I'm a first nations person, and to see a governance model like this exist in our country demonstrates to me that this has been validated, and I hope and encourage other sectors to consider this kind of engagement to that population, should they be impacted as extensively as the aboriginal community is impacted by homelessness.

[Dona Cadman, Conservative, Surrey North, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I want to thank the guests for being here.

Did we have any other questions?

Mr. Lessard.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

If we have time, Mr. Chair, could we do another quick round, provided that everyone agrees?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Sure. Yes, we've kept you. You're okay with that?

[Dave Ward]

Absolutely.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

We're going to finish with you, Mr. Lessard. You ask whatever questions you want, and then we'll call it after you're done.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

That's nice. I will try to keep my questions brief.

You said you had an aboriginal committee and a non-aboriginal committee. Do they communicate with one another so they can each benefit from the other's work?

[Dave Ward]

I need to clarify that a little.

We have two nominating committees, one for aboriginal and one for non-aboriginal. The individuals who are recommended through that process populate our board. So out of the nine seats on our board, five are appointed through the non-aboriginal committee process and four are appointed through the aboriginal. So, collectively, our board is made up of the five and the four, to make up the nine. They work as a collective unit to help us end homelessness. So, absolutely, the sharing of capacity-building opportunities, of community understanding, is also something that's an offshoot benefit.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Good, thank you. That makes it clearer.

When Ms. Cadman asked you about the average age of homeless people, you said that for men, it was 25 to 35. I would think there are also women who are homeless, just like in Montreal—since the proportions are similar in both cities. If so, what is the percentage of women who are homeless?

[Wendy Myshak]

To clarify, 25 and 55, not 35. It's a much smaller percentage of women: 30% women, roughly.

It's interesting you brought that up, because women become homeless for a very different reason than men do. Usually, it has to do with domestic violence. They can't afford a place to go once they try to leave their domestic violence situation. Again, poverty, and it does impact single mothers and women a lot more than men, because, especially in Alberta.... Men have an opportunity to work in construction or in the oil fields, and they can make a fairly decent wage, whereas women in Alberta, if they're not educated, are usually forced to work for minimum wage, which I'm sure is true across the country. Because it is so pricey here, it is a very difficult situation for women in Edmonton.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

One last question.

First, I can see that you seem to be very confident in the strategy that Edmonton and Alberta have adopted, and that makes me very happy. The strategy seems to have potential. You also said that, as far as housing units go, there is a plan to create 3,350 of them.

Is that correct? If so, has the plan been implemented? Is there a schedule?

[Wendy Myshak]

We do have a schedule. This is from the city's plan, not the provincial plan. Their goal over 10 years is to build 3,500 units, and it's to be completed by 2018.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Excellent. Thank you very much. It is exciting to see how much faith you have in this plan, and we are very glad. We will keep track of your progress from afar. It is a good example.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

With that, I will say once again thank you for taking the time and thanks for being patient while our meeting was getting started.

I see, Wendy, that you have a final comment.