Human Resources Committee on Sept. 29th, 2011

[Claude Patry, NDP, Jonquière—Alma, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. McGovern, I would like to thank you so much for being here and for your presentation.

In your presentation, you spoke about modernization. I come from the union world. When there is modernization, there is centralization. Things will now be done by telephone and computer. You know that Canadians are not all skilled at using computers. Even I have trouble adjusting to these changes.

I have a concern. I have a question for you, but then another one after that. The wait time to speak to someone at Service Canada to ask about employment insurance has increased. I've been told that the wait is longer than it should be.

You know that when someone presses 1 or 2, they often hear "your call is important to us". Now, callers aren't even getting an answer. They're told that the lines are busy. People are having difficulty responding to them.

Questions are being raised, and we are quite concerned about people who want to receive employment insurance benefits. Some of them are receiving benefits currently because of a lack of work. When they get sick and want to change their claim, they get no answer, even after 60 days. The timeframe has really increased since we started speaking about centralization and modernization.

A 58-year-old man like me who wants to make a claim and who must put an X in the boxes can sometimes make a mistake on the computer without even knowing it, and the system can block him. It can take days before he gets an answer.

I am an advocate for centres because contact with people is important. The type of people who are going to come and meet you in person at the service centres are going to be more comfortable.

According to the Fédération des travailleurs et travailleuses du Québec, it takes 100 days to process an employment insurance claim, instead of 28. There are 30,000 delayed files in Quebec alone. Service Canada has already lost control of its service offer and says that these cuts of over 600 positions will have no considerable impact. Canadians will be the first victims of inappropriate budget cuts.

In the case of a file review, which must not exceed 21 days, it's taking 181 days under the current system. For the control investigation service, instead of taking 21 days, it's taking 532. What will the average wait time be to process an employment insurance claim after services are centralized?

[David McGovern]

Thank you for your question.

As I said in my previous response…

the Service Canada officials who will be appearing after us are much better placed to answer the concerns raised by the member. We work very closely with Service Canada, but my experience is that it's best to have them respond to service-related questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Claude, do you have any additional questions you'd like to ask? You have an additional two minutes.

[Claude Patry, NDP, Jonquière—Alma, QC]

No, it's okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

You want to share the time. That's a fair thing to do.

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

Mr. McGovern, you talked about reducing barriers to post-secondary education, and in your document you also made reference to supporting communities in their efforts to address local challenges and to meet the social development needs of Canadians. Mr. Beauséjour actually touched on my question. He talked about the aboriginal skills and training strategic investment fund, which is part of one of the programs you deliver. Yet when talking about aboriginals, all too often, as you know, they don't have the same amount of resources as others do. By the time a program is put together, such as the police studies certificate program that I have here, they get a bit of funding but then can't continue. Maybe you can tell me whether or not that program is still in existence, because the documentation I received says the response they received was that the program was finished as of March 31, 2011.

Is that program still in existence? Is there an opportunity for organizations like the Assiniboine Community College to actually tap into those dollars to have their program go forward for their people?

In keeping with that, Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development Canada has already committed 25% funding to this program and the RCMP fully supports it. St. Theresa Point will be providing accommodations as well. So they need the dollars to move forward on this program. I am just wondering if that program is still in effect.

[Louis Beauséjour]

I will try my best to answer that question.

Basically, when we look at the aboriginal labour market program, right now there are three types of programs. We have the aboriginal skills and employment training strategy. There are five years of funding for that. It provides funding to 80 aboriginal organizations, which provide over 40 points of service to prepare first nations, Métis, and Inuit to return to work or gain access to employment.

There is the skills partnership fund, which is also an ongoing program. We have $200 million over five years for that. It is a partnership based, employment driven fund that will support projects and encourage innovation and partnership.

As part of the EAP we also had additional money that was provided. I don't remember the name, but I think it was ASTSIF. It was additional money to supplement that funding. It was time limited money, which was also providing project based funding. That money effectively came to an end in March 2011.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

You might have to answer that supplementally in the next round.

We'll move on to Mr. Mayes.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for being here today.

I have some questions about page 9 of your deck out of interest, as I'm new to this committee.

You show your expenditures of $101.1 billion. Of that amount, the Canada pension plan is $33 billion. That's what you pay out, but there are premiums paid in. You don't have any revenue that actually comes into the department to offset that, or are you just managing the plan where you're paying out that amount of money?

[Jacques Paquette]

You're correct that we manage the plan. The contributions are being paid on an annual basis, amounting to 9.9% on a half-and-half basis between the employee and employers. That money is captured and, at the moment, we are not paying benefits out at the same level as the contributions. So the excess is being invested for what we call the future peaks, because of baby boomers basically retiring and so on. We don't expect to have to draw from this fund for another 10 years. So what you see here are the total benefits being paid through CPP on an annual basis.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

I want to follow up on that a little bit. You put down $33 billion. Is that the benefit paid out, or does the department get a percentage of that for handling that fund on behalf of the Canada pension plan?

[Jacques Paquette]

That includes the....

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

It includes the costs of managing the fund?

[Jacques Paquette]

Yes.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Okay.

It would have been interesting to me, as a newcomer here, to have a revenue base, not just expenditures, to see how much money is coming in. I understand the reserve on the Canada pension plan, for instance, is $60 billion. Is that roughly what it is?

[Jacques Paquette]

I didn't check the last figure because markets are moving, but it's in the $150 billion range.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

That's great. It's good news.

That would be similar to employment insurance, insofar as there is revenue coming in. You just manage the issuing of the benefit. Is that correct?

[Jacques Paquette]

That's correct.

In fact, there are three different sources of funds for the department. One is EI, one is CPP, and the rest is a central....

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

It would have been interesting for me, as a newcomer, just to see what does come in. When a taxpayer looks at this and sees there is $101 billion going out, it's always nice to see what is coming in from the premiums that are being paid. When you look at that, you take the amount of money the Canada pension plan is receiving and the money coming in from employment insurance and you add those together and all of a sudden you realize that, actually, there is only a little over $55 billion going out. I think that is a better picture of the cost to the taxpayer. That would be an invaluable part of this deck.

[Jacques Paquette]

I would add that all the amounts relating to the CPP are published on a yearly basis by the Chief Actuary, who keeps a close track on the needs: how much comes in, and how much goes out. In fact, in his report he said that the CPP was viable for the next 75 years, and that's based on all of these projections and on the in and out currently happening. The number I have here is that the contribution last year was around $37 billion. That's what was coming into the system. As you know, we are managing the CPP on behalf of the federal and the provincial governments.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Canadians should be very happy that we have this security with our Canada pension plan. It's been a very great success and I think it's recognized around the world.

There has been some discussion about the possibility of employment insurance being an in-and-out fund, where it is balanced every year to the cost of premiums. We've had a hiccup in the economy. How do you see the department handling that? Have you had any discussions about whether you'd still be administering the sending out of the cheques and the administration of that fund? It would be a separate line item where you have the premiums coming in and the benefits going out, as far as EI is concerned.

[Louis Beauséjour]

I will take that question.

First of all, in terms of following the EI operating account, it's both the expenditure and revenue under the operating account. It is published as part of the public accounts. With regards to the financing of EI, right now we have the Canada Employment Insurance Financing Board, which is responsible for managing any surplus. They are also responsible for setting the EI premium rate to ensure that in the future, the EI operating account is in balance. As you probably know, last year it was determined that the maximum increase in the EI premium be fixed at a lower level. Right now, the government is doing consultations on what the EI rate-setting mechanism should be for the future in Canada.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you very much for the information. I appreciate that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

You're time is up.

We will move to Mr. Simms, for five minutes.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Thank you.

At the beginning, the 95% and 5% were discussed, as well as where the 4% expenditure review would come from. I'm not quite certain as to where it would.

Would any of those payouts, or any of those three pillars, as I will call them, regarding the 95% paid out be affected by an expenditure review of 4%?