Human Resources Committee on Sept. 29th, 2011

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Okay.

We will then move to Ms. Perreault.

[Manon Perreault, NDP, Montcalm, QC]

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.

Page 4 of your presentation indicates that you help Canadians with specific needs, including persons with a disability. I recently read the 2011 Summative Evaluation of the Canada Pension Plan Disability Program. The report indicates that 49% of people who do not qualify for the disability program still have no employment income after three years.

Does the department intend to study the reasons for the problem behind these numbers?

[Jacques Paquette]

Actually, when we looked at the evaluation report, we noticed that some numbers were surprising and that we would need to do a lot of work to understand the numbers better. It wasn't clear why some of these people did not return to work or how the files were presented. In our response to the report, we noted that this matter would require a more in-depth review to understand the dynamics and better understand what these numbers really mean. It wasn't clear whether we could draw any conclusions from what the data seemed to be indicating. We are now trying to better understand what these numbers represent, the reasons why these decision were made and that factors that explain why some people have not returned to work.

[Manon Perreault, NDP, Montcalm, QC]

Could we get a copy of your study? Would it be possible to have a report that would justify these numbers and percentages?

[Jacques Paquette]

We are conducting evaluations to determine whether there are things that we aren't seeing or that we don't know, and to evaluate the effectiveness of the program. It's important to know that the Canada pension plan disability program uses very specific and very precise definitions that refer to the seriousness of the disability and to a long-term disability, among other things.

The fact that someone did not return to work doesn't necessarily mean that that person fulfils those conditions. This is sort of what we need to understand better, the nature of the situation or the reason why the individuals didn't later return to work. It also involves seeing if there are other reasons to explain whether or not a situation matches the definition itself of the program.

[Manon Perreault, NDP, Montcalm, QC]

The same report indicates that 48% of recipients are below the poverty line, and that it's mainly people with mental problems who are affected. What does the department plan to do to deal with this level of poverty?

[Jacques Paquette]

Are you talking about people who benefit from the pension program or other people?

[Manon Perreault, NDP, Montcalm, QC]

I read it in the summative evaluation report, so it's people who benefit from the program.

[Jacques Paquette]

It's an insurance program. When we contribute to the Canada pension plan, we also automatically contribute to this insurance fund. The program is set up to provide these insurance funds to people who meet a minimum number of criteria. For example, a person needs to have previously contributed to the program, and so on. Once you are eligible for the program, there is a basic benefit amount, a minimum but still respectable amount, that everyone gets. This way, even if you haven't been contributing to the program for very long, you still get a minimum amount. Added to that is a percentage of what you would have received for a pension, for example. It's the combination of those two amounts.

It's a little like the Canada pension plan, which was not put in place with the intent of replacing 100% of a person's employment income. It was designed to help and replace up to 25% of employment income.

When a person benefits from the disability program, amounts are therefore added. Other programs, including tax credits, are also in place to help these people.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Ms. Perreault, your time is up.

We'll conclude with Mr. Butt.

You have five minutes, and we'll suspend after that.

[Brad Butt, Conservative, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I appreciate it.

Thank you very much for coming today. I wanted to let you know that one of my first very positive experiences after being elected on May 2 was my visit to the Service Canada office in Mississauga. It's a very busy office, but I was very impressed with your staff. I was very impressed with the openness and the professionalism I saw. I hope you'll take that back to them. I'll remind them when I visit them again how pleased I am with how the office operates.

What I would like you to do is to provide some detail on the various services, the myriad services that the staff are providing, for someone walking off the street in Mississauga into that office on Glen Erin Drive. On the other support services, as an example, I know there are computer terminals and stuff there that the public can walk in and use to access government programs. Could you just take a minute or so and detail the various services and programs that citizens can get access to just by dropping into their Service Canada office?

[David McGovern]

Mr. Chairman, I have no problem accepting compliments on behalf of Service Canada, but I think it's best that it provide that information. As you know, it is appearing immediately after us today.

[Brad Butt, Conservative, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

I'll ask the same question of them later.

[David McGovern]

But I share your observation. I recently visited a Service Canada office in Iqaluit, and it's an extraordinary role they play for the citizens of that territory.

[Brad Butt, Conservative, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Okay, I'll move on.

I guess I was confusing the overall areas that each of the presentations was covering today. So I'll get back to something that's more appropriate in the HRSDC department area.

Do you want to detail some of the achievements to date on labour mobility issues and your progress towards some national standards, while obviously working with our partners in the provinces and making sure that we have programs that are meeting the needs of our labour market today and where we are likely to be going in the future?

[Louis Beauséjour]

In 2009 one of the big achievements we had in terms of mobility, both internally and in ensuring that people coming from other countries or who had been trained in another country could have more access to the labour market, was the pan-Canadian framework for foreign credential recognition, which was key to that achievement.

Based on that, there were two sets of priority occupations that were identified under to ensure that the individuals who could potentially be working in those occupations would have fast assessments of whether their credentials could be recognized in Canada.

Last December, for the first set of occupations, we basically achieved our goal of ensuring that within a year, people would be advised if their credentials would or would not be recognized in Canada. Now we are working on a second set of occupations.

The other main achievement was the interprovincial trade agreement where, basically, we reached agreement that people who have been assessed in one province, particularly in an unregulated profession, would be able to work in any other province in Canada. That was also an achievement.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

We'll suspend for the next panel.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

I think we're ready to go.

We've heard from HRSDC, and we're now wishing to hear from Service Canada.

One of you will present, I gather, and then we'll open up for some questions.

Without saying too much more, we'd like to hear from you with respect to Service Canada.

[Carolina Giliberti, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Services Management, Service Canada]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I am pleased to appear before you today to give you a brief description of Service Canada and its role in the delivery of federal government services and its commitment to delivering the best service possible to all Canadians in a way that's efficient, effective, and focused on the changing needs.

I'm accompanied by my colleague, Mr. Paul Thompson, who is the assistant deputy minister of the Processing and Payment Services Branch; and Mrs. Cheryl Fisher, who's the acting assistant deputy minister for the Citizen Service Branch.

The purpose of today's presentation is to provide an overview of Service Canada, who we are and what we do. I will also talk briefly about our future plans, based on the ongoing improvement of the service.

We'll now move on to the presentation. I'd be happy to answer your questions afterwards.

Service Canada aims to offer one-stop, easy-access to government information, programs and services to meet the needs of Canadians. Our integrated national service delivery network makes it easier for Canadians to get what they want or need from the government, how and when they choose, by Internet, by telephone, in person or by mail.

As the operational service delivery arm for HRSDC, Service Canada supports the achievement of policy and program priorities through the delivery of core programs, including employment insurance, the Canada Pension Plan, old age security, the guaranteed income supplement, the social insurance number, and the wage earner protection program.

In addition to delivering core services, Service Canada also works with a range of federal partners to provide Canadians with help or information on such life events as finding a job, getting an education, applying for a passport, having credentials recognized, raising a family, retiring, living with a disability, starting a business, and much more. I will speak more on this later in the presentation.

Service Canada has strongly prioritized collaboration and intergovernmental partnerships, for example with the agreements on life events.

Within HRSDC's portfolio, Service Canada comprises a national headquarters and four regional management structures: West, Ontario, Quebec and Atlantic.

Service Canada is one of the largest and most regionally diversified organizations within the government. In fact, in a workforce of 16,000, almost 9 out of 10 employees do not work in the National Capital Region.

Service Canada has on four key business lines.

Our citizen services business line is responsible for Service Canada's client service strategies and offerings, as well as our integrated approach to managing key service channels. It captures the views of and perspectives of Canadians through such initiatives as our office for client satisfaction and the voice of the client initiative, as well as the insights of employees on how to continually improve services through our newly launched voice of the employee.

Our processing and payment service business line is responsible for the operational delivery of the department's core programs, including employment insurance, the Canada pension plan, old age security, and the guaranteed income supplement.

Our integrity services business line helps us to ensure that the right individual receives the right benefit payment at the right time through a comprehensive risk-based program to improve the accuracy of processing and payments, ensure compliance, and ensure the security and accuracy of personal information.

Our labour market and social development program is delivered at the regional level and is responsible for the delivery of a diverse range of programs to Canadians, such as youth, seniors, persons with disabilities, and aboriginal peoples.

Service Canada is responsible for delivering over $95 million in benefits for some of the most basic programs that touch the lives of Canadians: employment insurance, the Canada pension plan, old age security, the guaranteed income supplement and the wage protection program.

This represents approximately 4.3 million payments annually, with the vast majority—nearly 85%—deposited directly into client bank accounts, greatly simplifying the client service experience.

In addition to making payment processes more timely, Service Canada is also achieving higher levels of payment benefit accuracy through more automated processes, generally meeting or exceeding the 95% accuracy target for all major programs.

Ensuring that Service Canada and its employees are focused on the needs and wants of Canadians when it comes to priority services is at the heart of our vision.

Our mission statement is based on what Canadians have told governments they want from a service organization: timely, single-window access to the full range of government service offerings, supported by knowledgeable service professionals.

Under our mandate, we are committed to continuous improvement by deepening the level of cooperation in services to offer Canadians a wider range of government services in the delivery method of their choice. Service Canada's national multimode network ensures that Canadians can click, call or visit to get the government information, programs or services they need.

To provide you with a bit of detail on our more than 600 points of in-person service, we have 331 Service Canada centres, 274 scheduled outreach sites in rural and remote locations, and 28 Service Canada community offices.

On slide 7 you will see a map showing shows that we have over 600 points of service across Canada. Service Canada provides over 90% of Canadians with access to services within 50 kilometres of their homes.

This extremely detailed map of points of service shows the wide range of locations offering services in person to Canadians. As you can also see, the map very clearly illustrates that it is a priority for our organization to provide an efficient presence in urban and rural areas across the country.

At the present time, the vast majority of our in-person sites, nearly three-quarters, are located in rural and remote areas of the country.

Since it was created, Service Canada has made it an ongoing priority to create solid and sustained partnerships and to engage in intergovernmental cooperation.

We have more than 70 service offerings, and they're now delivered on behalf of Human Resources and Skills Development Canada and 12 other government departments and partners.

These partnerships increase our ability to attain more complex and convergent results when it comes to providing services to Canadians.

We enhance existing services, for example, sharing information relevant to social insurance number issuance. We deliver new services such as the passport receiving agent service, and we implement new cross-government service offerings such as the joint CPP disability and disability tax credit.

I'm now on slide 9.

There are four key challenges before Service Canada for the future, and these challenges have an impact on our ability to serve Canadians.

The first challenge is the changing demographic.

Our aging population will increase the pressure on Service Canada to deliver the pension and other services that Canada's seniors rely upon. Canada's senior population is expected to more than double by 2036, increasing service demands for pension programs. And as more people retire, we know we will need to turn our focus increasingly to supporting the skilled workforce we will need in the future.

The second challenge is the rising citizen service delivery expectations.

Canadians expect government services to compete with the levels of service they receive from the private sector. This means 24-hour, online, easy-to-use self-service. They want one-stop government services that are organized and offered to meet their individual needs. And in this digital age, as citizens are increasingly empowered to self-serve online, they expect 24/7 access to fully transactional government e-services.

New technologies present the third challenge.

Around the world, public and private sector service delivery organizations are leveraging new technologies to integrate and simplify the delivery of services, streamline transactional services, and make better use of online communication.

Lastly, fiscal restraint is also a challenge.

In a period of fiscal restraint, Service Canada needs to be efficient and as effective as possible.

To meet these challenges, Service Canada remains committed to delivering service to Canadians in a way that is modern, efficient and sustainable.

In the coming years, our service improvement plan will reflect the following priorities.

We want to enhance our service delivery through an improved Service Canada website and the My Service Canada Account, so that citizens can take advantage of greater electronic services and self-service options when they are seeking information and conducting service transactions.

This service improvement plan will also focus on the continued progress of a general modernization program by moving ahead with the possibility of automating, regrouping and further standardizing our administrative processes to attain better operational performance and cut costs in this period of fiscal restraint.

Thank you very much. I would now be pleased to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you for that presentation. You certainly do provide a full range of services that affect the lives of many, many Canadians.

We will now open it up to rounds of questioning, starting with Claude Patry.

[Claude Patry, NDP, Jonquière—Alma, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for your presentation. I was listening attentively.

I'm surprised to find out that 99% of claims are made electronically, because that doesn't correspond with what goes on in my riding.

I have three questions. I would like it if you could answer me in writing because we probably won't have the time to hear the answers.

Many rumours have been circulating since last summer about modernizing the employment insurance system. Canadians are concerned about the impact that automating the benefits claim process will have. The Department of Human Resources and Skills Development hasn't provided any specific information about the impact of its costing review strategy. Canadians have the right to be informed of changes the department wants to make to services offered to workers, particularly in this period of economic instability. Modernizing the system to make it more efficient is certainly respectable, but it must not be to the detriment of the quality of public services. How will these changes affect the quality of services offered to Canadians in person?

According to the Fédération des travailleurs et travailleuses du Québec, it takes 100 days to process an employment insurance claim, instead of 28. There are 30,000 delayed files in Quebec alone. Service Canada has already lost control of its service offer and says that cuts of over 600 positions will have no considerable impact. Canadians will be the first victims of inappropriate budget cuts.

File reviews, which are supposed to be done within 21 days, are taking 181 days under the current system. For the control investigation service, instead of taking 21 days, it's taking 532. What will the average wait time be to process an employment insurance claim after services are centralized?

Ms. Finley, the Minister of Human Resources and Skills Development, said that there would not be massive job cuts. It's astonishing that she doesn't consider the loss of 600 jobs…

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

If I may interject, Mr. Patry, the translators are having difficulty because you're speaking quite fast. If you could slow down a little bit, that would be helpful to them, as they're just not able to keep up with you.

[Claude Patry, NDP, Jonquière—Alma, QC]

Okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

So if you want to just continue, I'll give you a little extra time if you want.

[Claude Patry, NDP, Jonquière—Alma, QC]

The cuts are massive and have been mostly in the regions, which means that less money is being spent in the small communities. Not only will these cuts increase the unemployment rate in the regions dealing with a high number of job seekers, but they will also inevitably affect the quality of services offered to them.

How many jobs will be abolished in Canada in the next three years because of the automation of employment insurance claim processing? How many will be eliminated by attrition? What are the reasons behind the decision to centralize claims in one processing centre over another?

In closing, I'd like to remind you that I'm surprised to learn that 99% of people complete their claim electronically, because older people often don't have a computer or aren't very skilled at that kind of task. I seriously wonder.

Lastly, people have told me that when they phone to get information, the telephone lines are busy. So they can't get answers. I think we need to promote contact with individuals when they go to an employment insurance office because they can get their questions answered and be directed to the right resources, depending on what they need.