Chris Charlton at the Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities Committee

I would suggest that's a point of debate and not a point of order.

Nevertheless, if you look at the main estimates, there is now $113 million less under the apprenticeship incentive grant and $40 million less under the apprenticeship completion grant.

Even if the point is right that that's because of uptake, clearly there are barriers to uptake when you're saying there's a need for apprentices, certainly a need in the economy for journeymen, and you identified this as an incentive to try to raise completion grades.

Could you comment on that?