Human Resources Committee on Oct. 16th, 2012

[Jean-François LaRue]

Yes.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

—that some of these other countries have, which do seem to be quite effective. The one in Britain, I know, has been going on for centuries.

[Jean-François LaRue]

Yes, and certainly in Germany as well.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

Yet over here we're talking of the average starting age being about 25 years for an apprenticeship. That seems very late.

[Jean-François LaRue]

Yes, and seeing that in Canada the average age is 25 for enrolling in programs, this is an area we're examining.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

Okay.

Are you able to provide some examples of how your department has encouraged young people to acquire skills in the trades?

[Jean-François LaRue]

Well, we certainly have a number of initiatives. The grants are one way that we've been doing it. We've also been doing a number of targeted advertising campaigns as part of the Better Jobs campaign, the recent one that you've seen on national television.

There are the grants and, as I said, all the targeted initiatives that we have around youth, where some of the initiatives in essence are directly targeted at promoting the trades. Certainly, Skills Canada is another initiative that we've undertaken in some of the skills games that have been organized in that context.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

Another comment you made was that the completion rate is probably around 50%—

[Jean-François LaRue]

Yes.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

—which seems to be very, very low. Is there anything specific that's driving that, like the employer side or the apprentice side?

[Jean-François LaRue]

Well, as I said, this is multi-factor. I liked Ms. Charlton's comment when she said that you have to put yourself in the place of individuals entering a five-year program, in that a lot of things happen during these programs.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

Right.

[Jean-François LaRue]

The individuals are training. First, they need an employer that supports them, and supports them for the long haul. It's also a demand-driven industry, so you need to have actual work.

The other thing, too, is that some people who start as carpenters may discover that in another trade which may not be a compulsory trade, for example, a wall plasterer or other trade, they can make just as decent money. They don't necessarily complete their program, but it doesn't mean they're leaving the industry. They still work, but in a different capacity. They may not be registered in the data, but they're certainly present in the industry. They don't complete their program. We certainly would encourage them to complete their program, because in terms of their labour market resiliency, we're seeing in the data that they would do a lot better.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

Is there anything else the Government of Canada can do to encourage employers to participate in the apprenticeship programs?

[Jean-François LaRue]

As I indicated, the employer tax credit certainly covers the first two years of a trade. One potential aspect would be to consider increasing that support for the third and fourth years, especially if you have programs that are four or five years in duration. That's one aspect you could consider.

You could bolster some of the grants. Their size certainly would help. A program doesn't cost just $4,000 in support—

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

You're right.

[Jean-François LaRue]

I certainly think that awareness is a big factor on which we need to continue to work. As I said, some of these issues have been long-standing. They're not new. There may be structural aspects of our education system. You mentioned the international experience, with some countries having some interesting successes that we can learn from.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

You've talked a little about the trends in apprenticeship programs and some of the things that are happening. Are we getting any closer to closing the gap in terms of the skills that are needed by employers? We hear that a lot of trade skills are required in Alberta, Saskatchewan, etc., and the number of apprentices that are coming through to fill those positions.

[Jean-François LaRue]

Yes. Demography is certainly a challenge. We're doing a lot better. Over the years, as I indicated in my speech, registration has increased 120% since 1995. That's very significant. I'm not sure that the extent to which completion goes tells us something about what's going on in the industry, because of the factors that I've explained.

Clearly, for some sectors and regions, there will be some challenges. The construction sector council, for example, forecasts that the sector will have to replace 320,000 skilled workers between 2011 and 2019. The oil and mining sectors are also fairly challenged in terms of the demand. There are some gaps we're expecting, and we'll need to address them. This is why we're addressing not just the domestic demand, but also the foreign aspect of that demand.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

Do these trends and statistics that you're currently talking of apply also to the indigenous folks, the aboriginal communities? Are they getting into the apprenticeships and trade skills?

[Jean-François LaRue]

There are certainly a number of under-represented groups that could fare better in the trades, aboriginal people being one of them. We have an initiative directly targeted at them, certainly through ASETS, which is a federal program at HRSDC for aboriginal people, for sectors that are in high demand.

Another group we're looking at is women, in the sense that they're under-represented. The latest data I saw in terms of registration is that 12% of trade apprentices are women.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

Are there any comments from any of the others?

[Monika Bertrand]

Yes, I just wanted to add a few words in answer to your question about international studies.

We are quite aware of some other countries that have different education systems and they are doing fairly well when it comes to apprenticeship training, vocational training.

We very much focus on the idea of multiple pathways into the labour market, getting away from the idea that there is only one path to a good, well-paying job. We are definitely looking into the multiple pathways idea and making it interesting to youth, informing teachers about those pathways so they can pass that information on to the youth, and make sure that parents know about it.

This is something in which provinces, of course, are very active. We would partner with the provinces to make sure that this information gets to where it needs to go, which is in high school. You have to start early on educating the teachers, the parents, and the youth about what life they can have in multiple careers and in choosing multiple pathways, and what that entails, for example, what kind of education is actually needed and what kind of post-secondary education is needed. It doesn't necessarily require a university degree. There are other certifications that get people where they need to go.

We are definitely looking at the international experience. Denmark, for example, is a real leader in terms of employment outcomes for youth, apprentices, with vocational training. It's a good example for us to look at.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you, Mr. Daniel, for that clever extension.

We'll now move to Mr. Cleary.