Evidence of meeting #49 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 41st Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was apprenticeship.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Director General, Labour Market Integration, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Yes.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
We've heard through testimony on a couple of different areas we've looked at about the interprovincial recognition of credentials. There are bilaterals in place, such as in Alberta and Nova Scotia, which have a pretty good arrangement. Once you get to the Red Seal level, things are pretty good, but under that Red Seal level, what kinds of talks are going on? Who's leading the charge on trying to come to terms with recognition? Is it just a province-to-province thing, or is it within the trade?
Director General, Labour Market Integration, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
That's really the most recent development, the most significant one. I have a dispute panel resolution decision that was made in the case of a crane operator, and it is very revealing regarding the effectiveness of chapter 7, which promotes the mobility of trade.
Fifty years ago when the Red Seal program was established, it was a program to promote mobility. Since the amendments in 2009, as I mentioned in my speech, an individual certified in one jurisdiction doesn't need to go through an additional assessment or requirement or testing to be certified in that other jurisdiction. In that sense they are fully mobile.
The part we do not control, which proves to be a bit more challenging, is that the employers retain what I would call the hiring decision. Obviously sometimes they may have an additional requirement that we're not aware of, or it can be just a union controlling a certain sector of the economy. Certainly in construction, unions have a big say in terms of which worker can go into which environment. These are obstacles we don't necessarily have a grasp over, but in terms of making sure the certificates, the credentials of individuals, are fully recognized between provinces, the Agreement on Internal Trade is what I would call the social safety net.
There was a dispute panel resolution on a crane operator. A crane operator from Quebec wanted to operate in Ontario and was denied his licence because this category of licence didn't exist in Ontario, and Ontario was arguing that there were differences in the number of hours of training. The panel found that the individual actually matched a certain category in Ontario, and it instructed the Ontario government to give a licence to that particular individual and to pay damages of $1,500.
Director General, Labour Market Integration, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
No, it shouldn't be, but that's what the purpose of chapter 7 is.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
That has to be looked at. I think our committee is willing to look at that kind of stuff.
Do I have time for one quick question?
Conservative
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
Ms. Bertrand, could you elaborate a little bit more on your program regarding the annual amount of funding, how it's delivered, and the linkages on that? I think that's a pretty neat program.
Director, Youth and Labour Market Programs for Persons with Disabilities, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
I was talking about the skills link program. It's part of the youth employment strategy. It's a horizontal initiative. HRSDC's the lead, but we have nine departments and agencies participating. HRSDC's portion of skills link is just over $100 million. Skills link is a program that focuses on multi-barriered youth. Those could be recent immigrant youth, youth with an aboriginal background, single parents, rural youth, you name it. The program is based on an individual perspective. There's an action plan. Each individual is looked at in terms of where they are from, what background they have, what they already bring to the labour market.
An action plan is then put together. It can consist of several different interventions. Some youth are fairly far removed from the labour market, so what you have to do is provide them with basic employability skills. Those could be life skills to get them to the point of getting up at nine in the morning, having to be somewhere at a certain time, working in a group, some of the essential skills that are required to function in the labour market.
The interventions consist of work experiences. Once the youth is ready, and some are already there, all they really need is exposure to the labour market. They need a six to twelve month work experience that connects them with an employer. Another outcome we are looking at is to get them back into school. For some, if you put them into a work experience, let's say in the construction sector, it gives them a flavour of what a job could be like, what a career in that area could be like. It gets them into some sort of vocational training. There are some excellent programs out there. BladeRunners is a well-known program that helps kids get attached to the labour market and helps them get into vocational training. One of the interventions that's provided through skills link is for youth who have done part of their training, who have done part of their apprenticeship and are just lacking the work experience. We connect them with employers.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki
Thank you.
It was a short question, but maybe a little longer answer.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
Thinking of the comment about restructuring that was undertaken in Australia, it would be worthwhile maybe for the committee to check that out sometime in January. It's just a suggestion. It came from the analysts.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki
You have a very solid suggestion there, and I'm sure we'll investigate it thoroughly, Mr. Cuzner.
Mr. Shory, go ahead.
Conservative
Devinder Shory Conservative Calgary Northeast, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair. It seems as if Mr. Daniel started with the same intention as Mr. Cuzner. My thanks to the witnesses for coming here this morning.
In your presentation, you talked about partnerships. I believe that industry partnership is very important, not only to promote the programs but also to make sure that they are successful. I'd like you to quickly give me three names of the top industry leaders you have partnerships with.
Director General, Labour Market Integration, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
For apprentices, our main vehicle is the Canadian Council of Directors of Apprenticeship. We work with the provincial and territorial representative. Through that particular working group, we work with industry representatives. We have various partnerships and various projects. When they're related to the construction sector, we'll work with for example the construction sector councils or with other industry representatives. We have regular stakeholder meetings where we identify priorities for the CCDA. These are the stakeholders with whom we work.
I don't know if we have specific examples we could provide Mr. Shory with.
Assistant Director, Trades and Apprenticeship Division, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
We also work with union representatives, because unions are very committed to apprenticeship training.
Conservative
Devinder Shory Conservative Calgary Northeast, AB
Do you have any names of industry leaders you work with, or do you work only with or through councils and union leaders?
Assistant Director, Trades and Apprenticeship Division, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
We work primarily with industry associations.
Director General, Labour Market Integration, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
I don't have any off the top of my head, in terms of whom we're working with, but we certainly do.
Conservative
Director General, Labour Market Integration, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Yes, we will provide them to you.
Conservative
Devinder Shory Conservative Calgary Northeast, AB
I was listening to your presentation and I agree with you that a lot of students enrol in apprenticeships but do not complete them. My nephew in B.C. is like Mr. Cleary's son. He completed a two-year course as a machinist at BCIT, and I persuaded him to complete the Red Seal. He has one year, but now he wants to back out. As far as the federal government is concerned, there are good measures, such as tax credits, as you mentioned. You mentioned the incentive grant and the job creation tax credit for employers and some tools, etc.
Considering the financial circumstances we are in, are there any other non-monetary initiatives you think the department should undertake?
Director General, Labour Market Integration, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Every year the department has a fixed envelope within which it works to establish projects with community leaders. Certainly Monika has spoken to some of them. Every year the priorities of the department are reassessed in terms of making sure that we're directing what I would call an appropriate investment strategy for the projects that are submitted to us.
Honestly, if something that didn't cost money could be an effective means by which to provide supports to apprentices, we'd certainly do it. But on average when you intervene, what makes the difference is having some funding to support those initiatives. There are none that I know of that could be carried out that we haven't pursued within the current envelopes we have. Usually if they're not carried out it's because we lack the funding.
Conservative
Devinder Shory Conservative Calgary Northeast, AB
I'd like you to elaborate on the comment you made about some military personnel and the training that helps in transition, on how successful the program is, and how the department encourages more personnel to benefit from this program.
Director General, Labour Market Integration, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Essentially HRDC has been working closely with the provincial and territorial partners and especially the Department of National Defence to try to align the military trades with the civilian trades. There are a number of correlation studies. It's fairly technical to match military and civilian trades. The provinces can now use those correlation studies to provide easier access to Red Seal certification in matching those civilian trades to the retiring military tradespeople.
The helmets to hardhats initiative that we have provides job matching services to veterans, military personnel, and reservists to work within the building trades sector, including apprenticeship positions. The program is operated by Canada's building trades unions and is jointly funded by Veterans Affairs Canada, the governments of Alberta and Ontario, and the TransCanada Corporation. We have 13 Red Seal trades matched to nine military trades. Some examples are cooks, carpenters, plumbers, oil heat assistant technicians, construction electricians, welders. These are the first few obvious examples I could give.
Conservative
Devinder Shory Conservative Calgary Northeast, AB
I will go back to a similar question my colleague had earlier about misconceptions. I understand it's a provincial jurisdiction. Being the federal government, how do we help to make sure the students are aware that these are not dangerous, low-paying jobs? I know a plumber makes a lot of money, more than a university student. How do we get around this issue?