Evidence of meeting #61 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was training.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:25 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki
Thank you, Ms. Boutin-Sweet. Your time is up, but we'll allow responses, I suppose, for—
10:25 a.m.
NDP
10:25 a.m.
Dean, Business, Skilled Trades and Apprenticeship, Mohawk College of Applied Arts and Technology
We've been at this a long time. I'm not going to say that we have it right, but I think we're making headway. We're getting into our high schools more. Across the country there are partnerships with colleges and high schools where we're exposing more young ladies to the trades. It's still an uphill battle; there's a perception that it's still a bit of a male-dominated trade area, so we still have some work to do.
There are programs in our province that are specifically geared to exposing women to skilled trades. They're offered periodically by the government, and they've had some measure of success. In the model I mentioned earlier that we're delivering now, we've taken the need to find that apprenticeship out of the equation, because they're applying to school. They're not needing that employer to get started. It helps a little in terms of women entering the trades.
10:25 a.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Polytechnics Canada
I just want to say that the issue of women in trades needs to be seen in a bigger context of women in the science, technology, engineering, and math professions. It is a very practical issue. There's a whole society-wide cultural shift that has to happen. You heard from Skills Canada. You heard from Canadian Apprenticeship Forum. To have that kind of changing perception and get younger girls to want to try this, you have to talk to the secondary school systems and the school boards. You can't just look at the colleges to solve that problem. Colleges are facing the issue, just as universities are, of increasing the number of women in hard disciplines.
10:25 a.m.
Director, Yukon and British Columbia, Dean, Faculty of Trades and Technology, Kwantlen Polytechnic University, Council of Deans of Trades and Apprenticeship Canada
In addition to that, it's retention of women once they've completed the apprenticeship program in a workplace that is not friendly to women. Look at something as simple as washrooms, or washrooms in the field. Those issues need to be addressed to accommodate the female worker.
10:25 a.m.
Manager, Government Relations and Policy Research, Public Policy, Association of Canadian Community Colleges
Yes, I have examples of people who are interested in getting women in trades programs at colleges. Nova Scotia Community College has a women in trades program for aboriginal women. There are examples of those kinds of programs at colleges across the country.
10:25 a.m.
Conservative
Kellie Leitch Conservative Simcoe—Grey, ON
Thank you very much, everyone, for taking the time to discuss this important issue with us.
I'm a pediatric orthopedic surgeon. I essentially went through an apprenticeship program. I'm a very highly skilled carpenter and one of the things we've heard about at length is employment insurance and how it should be incorporated into our programming.
When I trained, I went to work every day. We had one or two hours where we took education every day and then we spent the rest of the day at on-the-job training. I have three questions.
First, with respect to the trades, why don't the trades do that? Why don't you facilitate that instead of having people take blocks of time off where they're not using their hands and are not able to do things? It seems like a natural thing to do, and I found it very helpful in my trade.
Second, in 1993 there was an adoption of national training standards by physicians across the country, because we had portability problems. We had mobility problems. We came to that realization amongst ourselves, without government intervention. We fixed our problem and now we have portability across the country. There were some accommodations that had to be made, but why doesn't that happen here? What is the barrier to resolving that mobility issue for tradesmen? And I take Anna's point that we should be using the term “trades professionals” as opposed to “tradesmen” or “tradeswomen”. I think you're absolutely correct in that.
What is that barrier to mobility that you can't get over? Who is the barrier? Obviously, physicians can do a lot of headlocking and we managed to get over it. Why haven't you?
Third, a little bit of it comes from the Mohawk College comment. This is specifically for Mohawk College, because I'm a health care professional myself. Could you comment on the economic impacts with respect to this new program that you're implementing and the specialization in health and technology? I think that's very important for people to know about, areas of specialization. We do that in my profession. Obviously, you're striving to do that, but what's the economic impact of it?
10:30 a.m.
Director, Yukon and British Columbia, Dean, Faculty of Trades and Technology, Kwantlen Polytechnic University, Council of Deans of Trades and Apprenticeship Canada
I can speak to the block release. There are a number of different models available. There's day release, where one day of the week apprentices are released from their jobs to come for training. The problem, however, with a day release process is that it protracts the length of apprenticeship from a short time to a much longer time. So it's not really preferred, but it is available.
The other thing is that there are a number of novel online delivery models that are available. This has been partially funded by federal sources. So when apprentices are working at remote sites, this allows them to study while working in the field.
Mobility is a very interesting challenge. It is provincially dominated and controlled by a series of directors of apprentices. This is an opportunity not to walk into a room with a big stick and say “Thou shalt”, but to walk into the room as a federal government and ask how you can facilitate—
10:30 a.m.
Conservative
Kellie Leitch Conservative Simcoe—Grey, ON
I beg to differ. Why don't you all walk into the room together and come to an agreement? We did that as a profession. Why don't you?
10:30 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki
If you wish to conclude, I see that there are others who want to respond.
Mr. Reiser, do you have any further comments?
10:30 a.m.
Conservative
Kellie Leitch Conservative Simcoe—Grey, ON
I just encourage you to do that. I agree with you; it has to be about accommodation.
10:30 a.m.
Conservative
10:30 a.m.
Director, Yukon and British Columbia, Dean, Faculty of Trades and Technology, Kwantlen Polytechnic University, Council of Deans of Trades and Apprenticeship Canada
It's the structure itself. I met with our director of apprenticeships two days ago. He mentioned the same mobility issue, because he knew I was coming to Ottawa and he wanted to speak to me and make sure that we were saying things that were appropriate.
You have a provincial issue. I think it's very important that, again, provinces are talking to provinces and are trying to work together. Every body has its own agenda. There's an opportunity here. That is all I am trying to say.
10:30 a.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Polytechnics Canada
Just to come back to Ms. Leitch, you mentioned your medical training experience and what has happened in that field. That was because the profession chose to build on portability. You can't look at the colleges and polytechnics and expect that we can dictate portability. These professions are governed by their—
10:30 a.m.
Conservative
Kellie Leitch Conservative Simcoe—Grey, ON
No, but you can encourage it. Why do you not find that happening?
10:30 a.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Polytechnics Canada
Each of these 300 trades are governed by their own logic, their own structure, and their own employers. Those are the people who have to say that a welder is a welder is a welder. However, there is something called the Red Seal program, which is the first step. But that is for only 55 professions out of the 300 trades.
10:30 a.m.
Vice-President and General Counsel, Public Affairs, Mohawk College of Applied Arts and Technology
I might be able to briefly address Ms. Leitch's question. I think part of the issue for medical doctors is that they have their own governing bodies in each profession. In Ontario, the government has begun to do that by establishing the Ontario College of Trades. I was in the government at the time. The idea behind this entity is really to provide the profile and the central planning for the trades in the same the way it is done for the professions.
As you can imagine, it is somewhat more unwieldy, because you are talking about hundreds and hundreds of trades rather than one profession. Nevertheless, I think it is something that is needed. You need to be able to centrally plan this if you're going to have true mobility between the provinces. That has always been an issue. Ontario has begun to go that way. It is still very much in its infancy, but I can tell you that the mobility issue was one of the main reasons for doing it.
