Human Resources Committee on March 5th, 2013

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Mr. Roots.

[James Roots]

We have very strong ties with youth groups across Canada. There's Deaf Youth Canada, and a deaf and hard of hearing association in the Atlantic area. Their executive director is on our board of directors. We collaborate with Deaf Youth Canada on what we call the Deaf Canada Conference and the Canadian Deaf Youth Leadership Camp every two years.

I can tell you that this generation of young deaf people is angry. This generation is very, very, angry. They basically feel alienated completely from society, because society has done nothing for them and is offering nothing to them now. Their education has been terrible. They have no employment prospects in society. They're very angry.

What they are doing now is they are building their own lives apart from society, and that includes setting up their own employment, finding their own jobs or whatever, mostly on the Internet. I have to say again that it's mostly Internet-based employment that they're doing now. A few of them have actually created their own online news channel. Everything comes out in sign language. All the daily happenings out there are in sign language so that everybody around the world who's deaf can understand what's going on. They came up with that themselves, and it's fantastic. They got sponsors for it, and it's good sponsorship, too.

That basically goes back to what I said in my presentation, that self-employment is almost the only viable prospect for most deaf people nowadays.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

I don't think anyone here can truly appreciate, Mr. Roots, the challenges that not hearing has in a society in which we have a lot of noise.

I'm really interested in the technology today. I've watched workers on a work site have coffee breaks, and instead of talking to each other, they've been texting. They were sitting five feet from one another. Does technology really provide some opportunities, such as employing people with one language, the value of which employers need to really appreciate?

[James Roots]

We live with this stuff. We live with our BlackBerrys or iPods. We do. We were the first to see the potential of these mobile devices. I can remember I went to the World Congress of the Deaf in Australia in 1997. We were all laughing in the airport, because you could always tell who the deaf people were going to that congress. They were all buzzing around like that. People were walking by and looking at us, because at that time most hearing people didn't have a device yet; they were walking by and looking at people. You arrive at an airport, you get off the plane, and you say, “Oh, there's a deaf person”, and you go up and meet them.

I think I've lost the thread here. I'm sorry if I've gone off on a tangent.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you for that comment and illustration. Mr. Mayes is now done with his time.

We'll move to Mr. Cuzner. Go ahead.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I thank our guests for being here today.

We've heard that there is a perception that has to be dealt with, but there are also physical barriers and technological barriers. I think there have been advances made in accommodation through technology.

I worked at a fish plant one summer. There was a gentleman who had had an accident and had come back to work. He had worked at the fish plant before he had the accident. On the processing line everybody stood up. They actually got him a stool. He was able to sit down and do his work. He was better than anybody else at the work, so the technological advance was to give him something to sit on.

Are there opportunities for employers through grants and so on to address some of the technological barriers or the physical barriers and to make those accommodations? Are those opportunities there for employers?

[Robert White]

I can give you an example that I had last week. I was in Newfoundland, and I met with this employer who became one of our corporate partners. He has 100 fried chicken restaurants in Canada. He just did renovations for 15 of those restaurants to make them completely accessible, not only for people to come in and eat, but also for people who would want to come in and be one of his cooks, servers, or employees in any part of that operation. That's 15 out of the 100.

One of the things I told him was that there are programs through the federal government that can help him move on to maybe making his other facilities more accessible. His reply was that he didn't need the red tape and that he would just do it on his own. He left it at that, and I didn't push any further. That's a prime example that I had from an employer in Canada who has 100 restaurants right across the country.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Just to push that a little further, is that a common response you would get from an employer, that there is a considerable amount of red tape in accessing these programs?

[Robert White]

If I may say so, I think we get that red tape as well whenever we apply for grants. We're actually into that process right now. There's a lot of red tape, and it's very time-consuming. We have very small budgets and very small groups of staff, so we have to dedicate a lot of our time to filling out all this red tape stuff. So I think it is.

[Paul Cudmore]

As you just pointed out, for someone with a bad back or whatever—I can't remember how your story started—to fix their disability it took a stool. A lot of times, for $500 a business can make their place accessible for someone with a disability. But that's in a good place.

I want to challenge you guys on something. I came up here last May, when we were here for meetings. One of my beautiful stepdaughters lives in Ottawa, and my wife and I decided we were going to take her out for dinner. We went down to the Market, and I was shocked. If you guys walked down to the Market, you'd see that at least half, or 80%, of the restaurants down there are not accessible. You need to go up one or two steps to get into them.

I was in shock because we were in Ottawa, and there was a lack of accessibility in the Market, a place that draws people in. I was just stunned.

If you go to Vancouver, you will see that everywhere it's accessible, every restaurant. A friend and I went out there last year. He's a chef who teaches at the culinary...and he wanted to check out restaurants. He stopped asking after the first night if their restaurants were accessible or not, because they all were.

So a lot of it, in terms of whether your community is accessible or not, has to do with the attitude and the culture in your community. It's not whether there are grants or something out there, but it's the attitude and the culture of the community.

If you want to make Ottawa accessible, you have to change the attitude and the culture of the community. Everybody in the Market has to buy in when it comes to making the Market 100% accessible to everybody who lives here. That's what they did in Vancouver. Everything is 100% accessible for everybody who lives in the community.

It's all about the attitude of the municipality and of the governments in the community.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Did you want to comment, Mr. Roots?

[James Roots]

There are service agencies who meet up with employers or whoever to explain to them how, if they hire deaf people, they can do this, this, and this. But I prefer to tell employers to come and visit my office.

The employer arrives at the door and they knock. Nothing. Then they see a sign that says, “If there's no answer to your knock, flip the white light switch at the side.” The light goes on and off inside the office to alert me that somebody is at the door. I go out and open the door: “Oh, come on in.”

We have a softwood floor, and when someone bangs on it, I can feel the vibration. I'll say to the employer, “Just a moment, please, someone wants to talk to me.” They wonder about this, because no one has said a word: “How does he know that somebody wants to talk to him?” I feel the banging. That's why.

Then the employer and I are ready to sit down: “Here—I have a laptop ready for you to type out your responses to me. We're connected. What you type on your screen pops up on my laptop screen. We can go back and forth.”

Then they ask me how I even set up this meeting: “I did it on the phone.” When I tell them I called through the Internet Protocol Relay Service, they say, “Oh. You can do this.”

You're not going to be charged an arm and a leg for these things. Putting in a simple light switch outside my door costs you, what, $12? You could do it yourself if you were enough of an amateur electrician.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

You were doing okay up until “amateur electrician”.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

I'm not sure we'd want Rodger to do that.

In any event, your time is up.

We'd like to thank each of you, Mr. Roots, Mr. Cudmore, and Mr. White, for your invaluable contributions to our study. We appreciate your taking the time to be here and to share this with us.

I'd also like to thank the sign language interpreters for doing such a fine job. Thank you very much.

With that, we'll suspend for a few moments.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

We will bring the meeting back to order.

I would like to welcome everyone here.

We have Julie Flatt, interim national executive director, and Jean Beckett, president, with the National Network for Mental Health.

We also have Diane Bergeron, national director of government relations and advocacy, and Christine Robbins, government relations specialist, with the Canadian National Institute for the Blind.

Of course we welcome Lucie as well, who is here with you. She seems to be well behaved and rested there, I see.

[Chris Charlton, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

She looks like Colin Mayes.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

We'll leave that one alone. Thank you, Ms. Charlton.

We will start with a presentation from each organization, and then we'll have questions and answers from each side.

Ms. Beckett, go ahead.

[Jean Beckett, President, National Network for Mental Health]

Thank you.

The National Network for Mental Health would like to thank the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities for the opportunity to speak on the issues that face the population we represent, and that is the population of people with lived experience of mental illness and/or psychiatric disabilities.

The National Network for Mental Health is a unique national organization that has a grassroots history and approach. It is the only non-diagnostic mental health consumer-driven organization that is national in scope and service in Canada.

Those who live with a mental illness face the highest degree of stigmatization in the workplace and the greatest barriers to employment. There are many employment obstacles facing adults with psychiatric disabilities, including: gaps in work history; limited employment experience; lack of confidence; fear and anxiety; workplace discrimination and inflexibility; social stigma; and the rigidity of existing income support and benefits programs.

One of the biggest challenges we face is that many of the mental illnesses that exist start when you're a teenager, and many people end up at their most ill during the years when they should be in school. Their education gets interrupted, and that has a great impact on the rest of their lives.

The unemployment rate for persons with serious mental illness reflects these obstacles and has commonly been reported to range from 70% to 90%, depending on the severity of the mental health issues. These statistics are very damaging, given the fact that productive work has been identified as a leading component in promoting positive mental health and in paving the way for a rich and fulfilling life in the community. Indeed, it's very difficult to be mentally well without it.

The benefits of employment for people with psychiatric disabilities are huge: it has been shown to be a source of identity beyond the illness and an opportunity to speak out and meet new challenges. The ability to work offers hope for and realization of the goal of social inclusion and participation in mainstream life.

Work can validate and enable the development of self-esteem and a sense of self-worth. Many people with psychiatric disabilities who have experienced the stigma and marginalization that are damaging to their self-esteem have connected the rebuilding of the self to work. Research has shown that, like others, most people with psychiatric disabilities want to work.

Literature illustrates the enormity of the problem of stigma and discrimination around psychiatric disabilities. Stigma and discrimination result in the avoidance of seeking health care by those who may need it and prevent the sharing of concerns with family, friends, co-workers, employers, health providers, and others in the community. People with psychiatric disabilities suffer greater stigmatization in the workplace than those with other disabilities and are more likely to experience long-term disability and underemployment.

Mental illness is a collection of disorders, including depression, bipolar disorder, and anxiety. The symptoms can range from a loss of motivation and energy, changed sleep patterns, extreme mood swings, disturbances in thoughts or perception, or overwhelming obsessions or fears. Mental illness is not developmental disability, it is not autism, and it is not many of the other disabilities that we are lumped in with and that people assume we fit with. We are not that.

Types of mental illness include bipolar disorder, which is a mood disorder that causes people to feel intense, prolonged emotions that negatively affect their mental health and well-being, physical health, relationships, and behaviour. In addition to feelings of depression, someone with bipolar disorder also has episodes of mania. These symptoms may include: extreme optimism; euphoria; feelings of grandeur; rapid, racing thoughts and hyperactivity; and a decreased need for sleep and increased irritability.

Depression is a major depressive disorder that is not the same as “the blues”. We all experience the blues and sadness at times in our lives. You lose someone you love or a negative change happens in your life. That can be depressing. Depression as an illness is totally different. You can be having the best time of your life and still be depressed. Depression as an illness is depression at a time when you should not be depressed.

Schizophrenia has also been identified as a biochemical brain disorder that can affect a person's ability to determine what is real and what is not. People with schizophrenia can be affected by delusions or hallucinations and social withdrawal. Most people, when they think of mental illnesses, think of what you see in the media. They think it's schizophrenia; they think it's split personality, but in fact schizophrenia is a split from reality.

Then there are phobias and panic disorders that can cause psychiatric disabilities known as anxiety disorders. These are among the most common types of mental health problems, affecting one in every ten Canadians. In spite of this, anxiety disorders are not well understood, and those of us who experience these conditions are often regarded as weak, self-indulgent, or undisciplined. We're told to just get over it.

Is it possible to recover from mental illness? It certainly is. People can and do recover. Recovery is a very individual issue. A person with a psychiatric disability, and indeed every person, needs a feeling of belonging, a sense of hope and empowerment, and connections with others to recover from mental illness or a psychiatric disability.

In the consumer movement of people with disabilities, we have a saying: “a job, a home, and a friend”. Everybody needs a safe place to live. Your home is where you go to be safe from the world, and everybody needs one. We also need a job, a paying job preferably, but if not, people benefit even.... You need a purpose to get up in the morning. Everybody needs a reason to get up in the morning and something to do. That's where our job comes in. When we speak of a friend, we are talking about peer support. We talk often about family of choice rather than biological family, because often when a mental illness affects someone it damages the family relationships, and quite often people are separated from their families. So we develop families of choice, people we trust who support us and we support them.

According to the Center for Reintegration, in its article on mental Illness and the workplace, there is a growing awareness that a disability is not so much an impairment as it is a product of the environment in which a person lives. I think Mr. Roots would agree with that.

While the treatments of holistic and alternative methods of recovery have advanced, much of society's thinking about psychiatric disabilities has not changed. There are many myths. First, people think mental illness is the same as a developmental disability, or an autism. A developmental disability is an impairment in the person's ability to learn, or in their intellect. Mental health issues are about thinking, not about understanding. Autism is not a mental illness; it is a learning disability.

The second myth is that recovery from mental illness is impossible. But while these illnesses can be persistent, research has shown that with treatment and the proper community supports, the majority of people can achieve genuine improvement in their symptoms over time and lead stable, productive lives, as long as they have “a job, a home and a friend”.

Myth number three is that mentally ill and mentally restored employees, i.e., those whose mental illness is effectively treated, tend to be second-rate workers. This is far from being true. Far from being inferior workers, individuals with mental illnesses may in fact be superior in many ways to their co-workers without mental illness. Employers who have hired these individuals report that their attendance and punctuality exceed the norm; their motivation, work quality, and job tenure is as good as, or better than, that of other employees.

Myth number four is that people with psychotic disabilities cannot tolerate stress on the job. That's not true any more than it is true for the average individual. Stress on the job is a problem for everybody, and it's not a greater problem if you have a mental health issue. If you have a mental health issue, yes, stress can be a bigger problem, but that's why we get treatment, so that we can deal with it at the same level as the average person. But we do need to educate employers that our workplaces are too stressful for anybody, not just for someone with an illness, and in fact workplaces have caused many mental illnesses. We're very aware of the workplace shootings, people who shoot up the place. That generally stems from too much stress and problems in the workplace that have nothing to do with disability.

Myth number five is that mentally ill and mentally restored individuals are unpredictable, potentially violent, and dangerous. Again, this goes back to the media portrayals of people with mental illnesses as frequently and randomly violent. A research literature review conducted at Cornell University found absolutely no evidence to support such portrayals. The fact is the vast majority of individuals with psychiatric disabilities are neither dangerous nor violent, and they are more likely to be victims than perpetrators.

A stakeholders' engagement on employment barriers for Canadians with disabilities was organized by Human Resources and Skills Development Canada's Office for Disability Issues on February 8, 2012. The objective of the meeting was to bring national disability stakeholders together to discuss the challenges and barriers. The meeting was part of HRSDC's ongoing engagement with Canadians with disabilities.

Long-term stable funding is probably our biggest need. This would allow us to better establish relationships with partners such as employers and to provide the long-term support that people with disabilities with more complex needs require to obtain and keep employment.

There are employment models that work out there, or there have been. An article from the Global Business and Economic Roundtable on Addiction and Mental Health reports that every one of us has his or her distinct background that makes us unique, with varying abilities, strengths, and weaknesses. Canadian laws and customs celebrate these differences. Sometimes these invisible differences affect a person's ability to do a job or to interact with people, and mental health issues are one of those invisible disabilities. The Great-West Life Centre for Mental Health revealed that employees believe the workplace is where they are least likely to get support, so 64% of employees with mental health problems keep their conditions secret from their employers. Think about that. How do you do that when you have to see the psychiatrist every Tuesday and every Thursday you have to see your therapist, and on Fridays you get a little overwhelmed in the morning if you don't have an extra 15-minute break? How do you keep it a secret from your employer without it impacting your work?

Statistics show that approximately one in five Canadians will be affected by a mental health issue in their lifetime, which means that almost every Canadian will be touched by it, either themselves or through someone they know. So let's do the count-off. One, two, three, four, five—statistically, three of you are afraid to speak up about your mental illness. We won't ask you to—

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

You're well past your time, Ms. Beckett, do if you could bring your remarks to s conclusion, that would be good.

[Jean Beckett]

Okay.

In the past, employment models have worked very well for the mentally ill and are very fiscally responsible, and as Mr. Roots says, they give the bang for your buck. A huge burden is created by the mental health issues in this country when people are not able to work. If we can have employment models that work, then we can reduce that burden. The National Network for Mental Health used to have such a project called BUILT, Building Up Individuals through Learning and Teamwork, whereby we offered job readiness training for people and job coaching so that people could get jobs and maintain them.

The Routes to Work program was a project of the Canadian Mental Health Association's national office. It also assisted people to find jobs and to keep them.

There have been others, but I want to bring your attention to one thing in particular. Out of the Shadows At Last was a report done by a Senate committee that led to the creation of the Mental Health Commission of Canada, and that report had some recommendations. Among them, first, was that the Department of Human Resources and Skills Development, through the Opportunities Fund for Persons with Disabilities, facilitate the establishment of a nationwide supported employment program to assist persons living with a mental illness to obtain and retain employment. Second was that this program promote the development of and provide support for alternative businesses that are both owned and operated by people living with mental illnesses. Third, the report recommended that the Department of Human Resources and Skills Development report on how many people living with mental illnesses are successfully assisted through the Opportunities Fund for Persons with Disabilities.

Unfortunately, these recommendations have not been followed, and some of the programs have been de-funded.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Your time is up. Thank you very much.

We'll now move to Ms. Bergeron.

[Diane Bergeron, National Director, Government Relations and Advocacy, Canadian National Institute for the Blind]

Thank you very much.

I want to start by thanking you all for having us come in to make a presentation to you today and by explaining how I'm going to make my presentation.

I have my speaking notes on my computer, and I have an earphone in, so my computer is going to be talking to me while I talk to you. It's a skill set that some of us have to develop, given the fact that our ability to read print is not readily available.

Thank you again for inviting me and Ms. Christine Robbins from CNIB to come and present to you today.

The most recent PAL study indicates that only 35% of working-age Canadians who are blind or partially sighted are employed, compared to 56% of working-age Canadians with disabilities as a whole.

CNIB's 2007 “The cost of vision loss” report found this low employment rate costs the Canadian government approximately $886 million a year in social transfer payments, forgone tax revenue, and reduced productivity.

Although the graduation rate of people who are blind and partially sighted is comparable to that of the general population—19.9% compared to 23%—educational attainment for blind and partially sighted job seekers does not transfer easily into employment. CNIB's unequal playing field studies found that of blind or partially sighted clients who had graduated with university degrees or higher, 49% were unemployed or underemployed.

There are three main barriers to academic and employment success for Canadians who are blind or partially sighted.

One is access to pre-employment skills training and career exploration. The second is access to adaptive technologies and accessible information in the workplace. The third is the lack of awareness among employers of the workplace capabilities of Canadians who are blind or partially sighted.

Pre-employment skills may include orientation and mobility skills to navigate various environments independently. These include white cane training and the ability and understanding of how to use other senses to get around. There are organizational skills and communication skills—these are the soft skills employers are seeking in their employees when they are seeking the best fit for the position in their organization—as well as career exploration opportunities and adaptive technology training.

Access to adaptive technology and alternate format materials is key to access in the workplace. Currently there is very little support for employers and potential employees to access the adaptive technology for their accommodation needs in the workplace, i.e. screen readers and screen magnification software for computers.

In previous studies looking at employment barriers for people with visual impairment, employers have identified two major challenges. First was their lack of understanding and knowledge of the workplace capabilities of people who are blind or partially sighted. Employers often lack the tools and resources to properly evaluate how a job candidate who is blind or partially sighted can perform the hard and soft skills the position requires.

Second, employers have limited resources and time to investigate the workplace capabilities of people with visual impairments. This is especially true of small and medium-sized businesses. As the panel on labour market outcomes for people with disabilities stated, more training and education are needed to help overcome hesitation and to dispel myths employers may have regarding workplace capabilities of Canadians who are blind or partially sighted.

While education and awareness are important, employers need the opportunity to work with people who are blind or partially sighted. This may be the most effective way for employers to overcome any hesitations they may have in hiring a person who is blind or partially sighted.

Studies in the U.S. have shown that employers who have hired people with disabilities for an internship are 70% more likely to hire a person with a disability into a permanent position.

CNIB recommends that the federal government implement the following targeted initiatives for persons with disabilities through the Opportunities Fund and the labour market agreements: internship programs for Canadians who are partially blind and partially sighted in the private and public sector, and as part of this initiative, CNIB also recommends that an adaptive technology bank be created for employers providing internships to blind and partially sighted Canadians in order to ease the transition into the workplace; and pre-employment skills programs specifically tailored to Canadians who are blind or partially sighted, and such programs would include organization and communication skills training, orientation and mobility training, and adaptive technology training.

Thank you for having us here today.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you very much for that presentation and for being able to use the technology in an interesting way to be able to present in the fashion that you did.

We'll start our first round with Madame Boutin-Sweet.

Go ahead.