Human Resources Committee on May 9th, 2013

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Could I ask you a question on this? We believe in the program, and it's got to be fixed. We know it's got to be fixed. A company like Maple Leaf that uses the program and uses it well, I might argue, understands the spirit of the program, but they would like to see a pathway to citizenship. We're not seeing that potential there. Is there a way we can improve that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

The time is up, but go ahead and respond to that.

[David Manicom]

There are tens of thousands of temporary foreign workers every year who obtain permanent resident status. The government introduced the Canadian experience class in 2006. It is growing rapidly. It's one of our few programs that has no intake control measures or caps. It's an open program and applications are processed immediately. In addition, particularly with regard to Maple Leaf Foods workers, under the provincial nominee programs, which have tripled in size over the last six years, provinces can respond to that ongoing labour need by making them provincial nominees and having them get permanent resident status on a priority basis. That happens in tens of thousands of cases per year.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Mr. Devinder Shory.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Can I get those numbers I requested?

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Did you say you could provide them? Okay. I don't think it's controversial with the committee. We'll expect those to come forward to our clerk.

Go ahead, Mr. Shory.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for being here.

I am from Calgary, Alberta, and I can tell you this program is wonderful. It's required not only in Alberta but also in some other regions of this country as well. This program definitely helps to address fairly genuine and acute labour shortages in our country.

Of course, there is no doubt that Canadians have to have the first crack at those jobs, but the program in general has been very successful. Definitely there has been abuse, but when abuse was noticed, there was an ongoing review. The government took action. We are trying to fix it.

I can't say there won't be any abuse in the future. It's an ongoing review. In any program there's always the potential for people to look for some kind of back door, etc.

Mr. Vermaeten, you talked about consultations. Obviously employers will have to transition into these changes we've proposed. It will have some impact on the way they deal with these files. I would like you to elaborate on what kind of stakeholder consultations are being planned for the coming months with these employers.

[Alexis Conrad]

Thanks very much.

I think it's fair to say that stakeholder engagement in this program is commonplace. We talk to employers and associations constantly. They communicate with us when they have program ideas or that sort of stuff. In the last three months the government ran an extensive consultation process. We talked to hundreds and hundreds of employers, with Minister Kenney, Minister Finley, a number of officials, and with provincial governments. It was an extensive process. The government recently announced plans for more consultations. Even over the next month there are several sessions planned across the country to get feedback on what was in the budget and to talk about the program and what the potential is going forward.

As I said, even outside of those planned consultations, the phone rings all the time, literally.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Obviously, these recommendations or proposed changes are based upon the consultations. Is that correct? Consultations were considered.

[Alexis Conrad]

Absolutely.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Mr. Manicom, obviously the integrity of the temporary foreign worker program is important to everyone. Anything we can do to strengthen it only benefits everyone involved in the program. Could you please make some comments on how the proposed user fee can help strengthen the program?

[David Manicom]

I first want to clarify that the number of consultative sessions we have held with ministers and officials over the last number of months included employers, labour groups, advocacy groups, and advocates for low-skilled foreign workers. We had very lively discussions at a number of those sessions.

With regard to fees, particularly if we're speaking about the labour market opinion fee, I think Mr. Vermaeten has already addressed that. We want to ensure that the cost of the labour market opinion process is not borne by the taxpayer. We want to ensure that it helps create a reasonable balance of incentive, that employers are cautious about going down the path of looking for temporary foreign workers, that they exhaust all other available avenues first, and that the fee serves as a disincentive to casual or speculative use of the program, for example, saying “We might need four or five this year, so let's apply for 20 labour market opinions”, which had been a common theme in the past.

The government has also introduced legislative authority to create an additional privilege fee related to work permits, the second stage of the application process. We haven't worked out exactly what this fee will do, but it will be designed to apply particularly in labour market opinion exempt categories. There's a large number of those under provincial authorities, under international trade law, free trade agreements, youth mobility programs, to ensure that the overall cost of the administrative regime, including the analysis of whether or not a labour market opinion exemption applies, including good compliance and enforcement measures, is borne by those who are getting the advantage from the program.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

We all would agree to one point, at least, that Canadians must have the first crack on the job when they are available.

The temporary foreign worker program we are talking about is meant to fill acute shortages in the industrial world when there are no Canadians available to take on the jobs.

This legislation of course seeks to ensure compliance with the specific purpose of this program. Is that right? Then how would the proposed changes serve the interests of Canadians and put Canadian workers first?

[Frank Vermaeten]

Thanks for that.

I think I've partially addressed that. Again, I'll just say there's a range of measures here, and they are all working essentially in the same direction, to make sure Canadians are getting the first crack at the jobs, putting Canadians first, and to make sure that's done in all cases.

I can tell you that in the large majority of cases it is done right now, but as we said, there are some abuses, there are some misinterpretations of the program, and that's what we're trying to correct.

I pointed out some of the measures, for example, ensuring employers who rely on temporary foreign workers have a firm transition plan in place to make sure that down the road Canadians will be trained, Canadians will be hired. Again, adding the questions on ensuring that these temporary foreign workers will not be used as an outsourcing of Canadian jobs helps protect Canadian workers. Those are a couple of the changes on the non-legislative side.

On the legislative side, the fact that we will have the ability, if the legislation and the regulations are passed, to suspend and revoke and refuse the process of the labour market opinions will give the government the tools to ensure that Canadians do have a first opportunity at these jobs.

There's a range of measures here both on the legislative front and on the policy front that will help ensure Canadians do have a first opportunity at these jobs.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you, Mr. Shory. Your time is up.

Of course, gentlemen, you agreed to appear here for an hour, but I see Mr. Cleary would like to ask a few questions. If it's okay with you, I'd like to extend the hearing just a little bit to allow Mr. Cleary to ask questions, and then perhaps we'll conclude with Ms. Leitch. We'll see how that goes, if it's all right.

Go ahead, Mr. Cleary.

[Ryan Cleary, NDP, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses.

I'm a member of Parliament from Newfoundland and Labrador, and I've had a number of cases of alleged abuse of the temporary foreign worker program. I'd like to highlight two, and then I have a specific question.

The first case happened in Labrador West, Labrador City, which is basically a mining town in Labrador, and it's booming. It has a zero per cent vacancy rate. The case of abuse here was almost three dozen temporary foreign workers being lodged in a single family dwelling. That was one case.

The second case is in Mount Pearl, which is a bedroom community right next to St. John's. That case, which my office investigated directly, involved Guatemalan workers who were brought into Newfoundland to work as chicken chasers, literally to collect chickens.

Anyway, to cut to the chase, they alleged they weren't paid what they were promised they would be paid. I visited the place where they were lodged. Basically, they slept on a concrete floor. There was mould. The living conditions.... That particular residence wasn't fit to live in.

My specific question is this. When Olivia Chow was here earlier she mentioned about how it's up to the province to enforce the Labour Code. Again, my office investigated these two cases, in particular, the case with the Guatemalan workers. We went looking for an authority to do something about these living conditions. We went to the province and the Labour Board, and they basically said that all they could ensure was that the Guatemalan workers were being paid the minimum wage, vacation pay, that sort of thing.

My specific question is this. Who investigates allegations of abuse with temporary foreign workers to make sure the living conditions, the pay, and the contracts are honoured? Who investigates, and what's the timeline for the investigation?

[Alexis Conrad]

With respect to some of the issues around the wages—whether people were paid, whether they were actually doing the job that the company told us, and that the workers came in—that's something we do. Working conditions, wages, and the occupation things that are covered by our compliance regime, we will investigate through our ongoing compliance activities, or if there's a specific allegation that we follow up with.

On the other issue you referred to around where people are sleeping, that's provincial in nature. It's not to say that we don't often work very closely with the province. When we are advised of problems that may be around temporary foreign workers that affect provincial jurisdiction, we work very closely with them. In cases where they are aware of anything, they will communicate with us.

[Ryan Cleary, NDP, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Just so I understand correctly, then, does your department investigate anything to do with the contracts and whether or not the letter of the contract is being lived up to?

[Alexis Conrad]

Right.

[Ryan Cleary, NDP, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

How many complaints have there been in recent years? How many complaints have been lodged? How many investigations have been launched? We'll start there. Do you have any numbers, in terms of investigations?

[Alexis Conrad]

I can't give you a precise number. I can tell you that every month we do literally hundreds of compliance reviews through a—

[Ryan Cleary, NDP, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

How many complaints have you received? Complaints, not reviews, how many complaints have you received?

[Alexis Conrad]

I don't know the number offhand, to be honest.

[Ryan Cleary, NDP, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Can you get the number?

[Alexis Conrad]

Presumably. I can follow up and see what we have.