Evidence of meeting #85 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was seniors.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Conservative
Brad Butt Conservative Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, everyone, for being both here in Ottawa and in Calgary. It's great to have you.
I'll start off with a couple of questions for Mr. Roberts. Does the CLC continue to support mandatory retirement clauses in collective agreements, which are negotiated by many of the unions that are members of your organization, despite the fact that at the federal level it has been eliminated and most provinces have eliminated mandatory retirement? Do you continue to support mandatory retirement clauses in collective agreements?
Senior Researcher, Social and Economic Policy Department, Canadian Labour Congress
That's a good question. Some of our affiliates do—I mean, they do support the principle of workers leaving paid work and entering retirement at age 65 in order to free up employment opportunities for younger workers.
In terms of the general principle, there's validity to this. When one looks at the collapse in the employment rate among young workers after 2009 and the continued rise in the employment rate among older workers, older workers are finding re-employment in retail service occupations, often in non-standard forms of employment that younger workers might be expected to compete for.
As to the principle of expanding opportunities for younger workers, the principle behind the availability of a secure, decent retirement is one we definitely support.
Conservative
Brad Butt Conservative Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
My second question has to do with seniority rights in many of the negotiated collective agreements. One would assume that those clauses actually benefit older workers, because if there are layoffs within a company, one would assume people who have worked fewer years at that company would be the first to go and those who have worked longer and who are older would be the ones who would stay.
Is it fair to say that collective agreements in a lot of cases actually help to protect older workers and help them to continue to work?
Senior Researcher, Social and Economic Policy Department, Canadian Labour Congress
Yes, I would agree with that. I think there's an important role for unions in assisting older workers to remain in the workplace, to contribute to the retention of workers with more seniority. Beyond that, unions can bargain things like phased retirement, flexible leave opportunities, accommodating and age-friendly workplaces, and flexible work arrangements, and they can work with employers to manage the introduction of new technologies and forms of work organization, to develop the training and identify the training needs among older workers to make sure they can adapt to the changing workplace.
Conservative
Brad Butt Conservative Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
My next question has to do with the targeted initiative for older workers, and you mentioned it. We've actually had a couple of other witnesses who have spoken very highly of the success of the targeted initiative for older workers, but you seem to be a little bit more skeptical. The evidence we've had so far is that it has been a highly successful program. It has re-integrated a very high percentage of workers who were displaced because they were in a one-industry town and the plant shut down. Everybody has to retrain.
I just want to be clear. You're a supporter. CLC supports the targeted initiative for older workers. You think it is a program that works. Perhaps it can be improved. No one will argue that programs can't be looked at and improved. But you would say it has been a successful program?
Senior Researcher, Social and Economic Policy Department, Canadian Labour Congress
I was trying to convey just that. I didn't mean to imply that we thought otherwise.
We have also looked at the evaluation of the program, which shows generally high levels of satisfaction or success with the targeted initiative. We believe that could be expanded to other older workers. There need to be a whole series of other measures supporting the targeted initiative—early intervention as well as support for lifelong skills development and training opportunities, as well as literacy development, in the workplace—so that we don't find older workers in traditional industries facing very severe re-employment challenges in the event of an industrial crisis or a downturn in those industries.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki
Thank you very much, Mr. Roberts, and thank you for pointing out some of the important aspects of the older worker program and collective bargaining agreements.
We now move to Mr. Cuzner.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
Great. Thanks very much.
Thanks to the witnesses. It's sort of appropriate to have the ladies on the line from Calgary. Just know that we'll be supporting the Pittsburgh Penguins because we know that Calgary has an older worker in Jarome Iginla, one of the city's favourite sons. He's probably a temporary foreign worker. He's only on a one-year contract down there. Maybe he's both an older worker and a temporary foreign worker.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
I know that young fellow from Cole Harbour is going to help him win his first Stanley Cup ring.
If I could pose my first question to the ladies, though, your organization is obviously plugged into a wide range.... Could you give us a bit of a profile of the people you provide services to? In your own circumstance, Ms. Williams, you're saying that you could probably get by without the additional income, but Ms. Cooper-Ponte, you and your husband are both pretty well set up.
In the profile of those you provide services for, would there be more in the former category, who maybe aren't in a position to provide for themselves, who aren't maybe as financially comfortable as they would like to be? I guess everybody is not as comfortable as they'd like to be, but if you get the gist of the question....
Volunteer Services Manager, Calgary Seniors' Resource Society
Yes. Our clients are typically low-income, isolated, vulnerable, with limited or no family supports or other supports, and they are quite often challenged with mobility issues—
Escorted Transportation Manager, Calgary Seniors' Resource Society
And financial—
Volunteer Services Manager, Calgary Seniors' Resource Society
—and financial issues. These are the types of people we deal with, anyone from 60-year-olds who are on AISH and will then be going on to OAS—they make more on AISH than on OAS—to our oldest client who turned 100 this week. Those are the people we are dealing with on a daily basis, with none of them in the workforce.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
Would many of the folks you deal with speak of a willingness or a desire to join the workforce and maybe share with you some of the barriers they are experiencing in doing so?
Volunteer Services Manager, Calgary Seniors' Resource Society
No. Most of them wouldn't have the capability of rejoining the workforce, due to the other issues they are facing.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
I would think there would be a significant concern that you would have heard about, that you would have understood, when the decision was made to increase the age from 65 to 67 for OAS eligibility.
Volunteer Services Manager, Calgary Seniors' Resource Society
I believe our outreach services would have heard more concerns regarding that because they would be having to deal with the people who might have been working but who now don't know what supports are going to be in place for them once they leave the workforce, or now that they've left the workforce and are not yet able to get OAS.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
As I ask that question, you're dealing with people who are in that zone now. Most of them would qualify, so it would be probably a younger demographic, anybody under 55, who would be more concerned, I would think.
Volunteer Services Manager, Calgary Seniors' Resource Society
That is correct. Now our outreach services actually start working with people at age 55.
Escorted Transportation Manager, Calgary Seniors' Resource Society
My group happens to be 65 and over, so I don't run into that.
Liberal
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki
Thank you for that, Mr. Cuzner.
Obviously everyone has an opinion on what that might or might not do.
I'd like to thank the ladies from Calgary for appearing and sharing some of their experiences with us, and of course Mr. Roberts for being here with us and also accommodating us today. I appreciate that very much.
Does somebody from the opposite side want to ask any more questions? Is there anyone else? No.
We thank you very much for appearing.
With that, we'll adjourn.
