Human Resources Committee on June 4th, 2013

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you for sharing that information with us. Certainly, those percentages are very high, so you're to be commended for the work you do.

We'll now move to the presentation by ThirdQuarter, an apt name for sure. We have Tim Jones with us, and Susan Barkman. So go ahead, whichever of you is going to present.

[Tim Jones]

Good morning. My name is Tim Jones, and I am the president and CEO of Skills Connect Inc., which operates the ThirdQuarter program that serves people who are 45 years of age and over. I'm joined by my colleague Susan Barkman, vice-president of marketing and communications. We'll both make brief remarks, and then we can entertain questions, if you have them.

Skills Connect, which operates ThirdQuarter, is a federal not-for-profit corporation governed by a board of directors, with a head office in Winnipeg, Manitoba. Skills Connect is founded and owned by the Manitoba Chambers of Commerce.

The ThirdQuarter program has been in operation since 2010, thanks to HRSDC and the support of our government. Our mission is to be accountable in meeting the needs of employers and candidates so that we create economic and social benefits for both groups. Our board of directors ensures that we achieve these accountabilities.

ThirdQuarter provides experienced and skilled workers to Canadian businesses through an efficient and streamlined recruitment and skills-matching process. ThirdQuarter is an organization created to address the growing need to recruit a mature workforce of skilled and experienced individuals who are a best fit for employers in both rural and urban communities across Canada.

ThirdQuarter also provides a wealth of resources to job seekers and an easy-to-use process for employers to post positions and be matched with suitable candidates. Skills Connect also operates a blog site and publishes a weekly e-newsletter that's free to subscribers and lists new job opportunities, resources, and how-to articles. ThirdQuarter also employs staff to assist candidates and companies with their employment needs.

Now, in our work, we found that a mature adult may choose to retire and then embark on a new career path; they may stay in the workforce because they enjoy their work and find it satisfying; they may stay in the workforce because they don't have sufficient funds to retire; they could possibly lose their jobs involuntarily and need to find new employment; they may want to combine work and lifestyle options for more balance; and mature women may enter or re-enter the workforce as an adjustment to a major transition, such as child-launching, divorce, or retirement of a spouse.

Canada suffers both from labour shortages as well as serious mismatches between the existing skills of workers and the needs of business. What stood out in recent discussions with business was the escalating and dramatic demographic shift from employees to retirees, leaving a serious gap in most major corporations. This has taken corporations by surprise, with no succession or legacy plans to address the issue. This is timely in so far as the ThirdQuarter movement recognizes these changing demographics and the benefits for our economy and society as a whole.

Today, research has found that Canadian men and women are living longer. That's why ThirdQuarter recognizes and supports their need to work longer. The number of people aged 45 and over who are working to supplement their pension and retirement incomes is rising as well.

Work helps validate mature Canadians' lives. It gives them, as does for most people, a renewed sense of pride, purpose, and peace of mind. Ultimately, work is a proven energizer. It helps many people feel more valued and necessary to their spouses, family and friends, their community, and the world around them. This positive energy spills over into all other areas of life around us.

Canadians aged 45 plus are more vigorous, visible, and vocal than ever. As consumers, volunteers, and learners, they are much more proactive than they were a decade ago. Often, they are the ones who are ready to experiment, to be open-minded in trying new ideas and in learning new things. The fastest-growing segment of social media, Internet, and computer users are people in this very same 45 plus demographic. In other words, our country's vision of aging is definitely not what it used to be. It is changing even as we read this today.

I'd like to identify a few reasons that unemployed older workers are having difficulty finding new jobs.

First, there are high salary expectations. Some employers may be reluctant to hire people who earned a higher salary in a previous position.

Second, there are younger bosses. Hiring managers may believe that older employees would be unhappy working for a younger or less experienced supervisor. Workers who previously held a management position often have difficulty adapting to a lower level job.

Third, there is the issue of out of date skills. Employers are increasingly requiring job seekers to submit applications and resumés online. Older workers who lack the necessary computer and other technology skills can be at a disadvantage in using these tools to find work.

Fourth, there are expensive health benefits. Some employers are reluctant to hire older people because they expect that it will be costly providing health benefits to older workers.

Finally, there are retirement expectations. Employers will often hesitate to hire or invest in an older worker because they assume that the worker will retire soon and fail to give the employer a good return on their training investment.

Some thoughts that we have on encouraging businesses to continue to employ mature workers include the following. As the workforce ages and the boomer generation of skilled and experienced workers considers retirement, businesses will need to develop strategies both to retain and recruit older workers. Most businesses are telling us that they agree, but they're unsure how to proceed.

One of the most important and effective initiatives will be to better educate management and human resource professionals on the value of older workers. The goal is to see the implementation of targeted recruitment and retention strategies, and changes in workplace culture. Decision-makers need to recognize that the experience and work ethic of older workers are invaluable in contributing to the stability of the workforce and in reflecting the diversity of the customers their businesses serve. Additionally, a supportive workplace culture toward the older worker will help them feel valued and result in long-term loyalty.

Employers must be encouraged to introduce flexible programs, such as job sharing, variable hours, telecommuting, and contracting. This will inspire older workers to stay on the job longer and assist in recruiting workers who bring specific experience and skills to the workplace. In addition, flexible work arrangements will encourage older employees to retain or modify their roles to meet the needs of an organization. Flexible pension programs that don’t penalize an employee for continuing to work, and health and wellness supports are also effective retention tools.

In addition to flexible work arrangements, employers should be encouraged to consider workplace accommodation as an effective strategy toward the retention of older workers. As workers age, the physical requirements of a job can impact an employee’s health and productivity. By developing initiatives to reduce stress or by retraining older workers to accommodate their needs, employers can ensure retention without impacting productivity.

Often forgotten by employers is the need to keep their entire workforce engaged. As with all workers, employers need to ensure that older workers are involved in decision-making that affects their work and that they have a sense of purpose.

Employers also need to consider that older workers are not entirely motivated by financial rewards and are engaged by being exposed to new opportunities or by acting as mentors, whereby they can share their experience and wisdom.

Now, there are some barriers to employment for older persons in the labour force, and I want to touch on a few of those.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

I wonder if you could maybe conclude with that, if you would.

[Tim Jones]

Sure, I will.

I categorize these barriers as external and internal, with the external ones being related to employment practices of business, and the internal ones being those that the older workers are in control of themselves.

From an external perspective, employment practices are often based on fallacies and misconceptions with respect to older workers. Frequently, older workers are stereotyped as being slower and less productive and not willing to learn new skills. Additionally, there are perceptions that older workers do not integrate well with younger managers. Older workers can find themselves in interview situations with young HR professionals who are half their age and who have little appreciation for the vast experience and skill sets they offer.

I'll zip through some of this because I know we're running behind.

The majority of the above-mentioned misconceptions are only that. In fact, surveys have shown that older workers tend to be loyal, highly trainable, and often serve as leaders and mentors in the workplace.

To conclude on the point about barriers, some of the most common employment barriers for older workers are internal and reside with the workers themselves. For example, in the case of job loss, the older worker will often lose their sense of identity and self-worth and question their own abilities in returning to the workforce. The task of assessing skills, preparing a resumé, and conducting a job search can be daunting to the older worker. In many cases, individuals will perceive themselves as too old to change careers and will withdraw from the process.

I’ll ask my colleague, Sue, to briefly speak about ageism in the workforce.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

We're really running out of time and are over the 10-minute mark. It will be difficult to do that.

[Tim Jones]

That's fair enough.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

We absolutely need to suspend in about five minutes, because we do have some committee business. I think what we'll do is to give one question to each party and try to make the preamble as condensed as possible.

Ms. Charlton, if you want to pick your question.

[Chris Charlton, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Thank you very much.

I'd love to ask questions to all of you, but I'm going to focus on the representatives from the Unemployed Help Centre. Thank you very much for being here. Both Joe Comartin and Brian Masse have told us about the amazing work you do. So you should know that it hasn't gone unnoticed by those of us on this side of the House, in particular.

I want to focus on your comments about advocating for workers between 55 and 64. I understand that you, quite rightly, point out that there are socio-economic reasons, declining pension plans, and all of those reasons why people want to continue in the workplace.

I come from Hamilton where the manufacturing sector has been decimated in a very real way. Many of the jobs that those older workers were performing might allow them to do their job until they are 65, but the physical nature of those jobs may not make it possible for them to continue to do those jobs when they are 70. I know that many occupations in Windsor are of the same nature.

I wonder if you could comment. I know you advocate for people to the age of 64. Do you think that we as a committee need to make that age distinction very clear in our work? How do we treat people beyond 65? Would you suggest that they go through the same kind of retraining programs so that we continue retention? Or do we need to take into account that the physical demands of some jobs just mean that we ought to help some folks retire with dignity?

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Perhaps you could make a short response if you could.

[June Muir]

Okay, I'm going to answer that as briefly as I can.

They would still require the same training. It doesn't matter that they're 65 to 70, because when they've lost their job or have not worked, they still need to come and sit with an employment counsellor. We have a program called choices that helps them make a career change, because they are going to make a career change, especially if they can't lift any more. They have to know what they want to do and to be passionate about it. So they need to come and meet with the employment counsellor, who then mentors them and works with the employer. Even when they're working, we get training dollars from the government to help us place them in jobs.

So without what you do for us, we wouldn't be able to help them. But because we have the program and the funding, it works really well and we would do the same thing for them.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you.

Mr. Daniel, you have one short question.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

I'll be very quick. I'll ask my question of Mr. Whitten since he's a lawyer.

It's come up a number of times already that a number of employers may actually be laying off people in that age group because of the cost of health care. Of course, re-employing them means there are more issues with supporting their health care insurance, etc. Do you have any comments on that and what are you seeing from your practice in terms of employers doing or not doing this?

[David Whitten]

Yes, I have seen a bit of a trend in that regard, but I think the cost of health care is a bit overblown, because disability insurance policies typically end at age 65. So that falls off the radar right off the bat, which is probably one of the more costly of the group benefits available to workers. That's also a function of provincial workplace safety and insurance legislation, which generally stops paying benefits at age 65, or in some provinces a few years beyond that if the injury happens after age 65.

So that social welfare net falls by the wayside, which does increase costs for employers. So I think the provincial legislation needs to be analyzed in a workers compensation area to recognize that people are working past age 65, so they can pick up some of the slack for older workers and the cost of maintaining benefits for them.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you for that exchange.

Mr. Cuzner, do you have a particularly pressing question or can we close at this point?

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Yes, I'd like—

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

I figured you might, but make it a short commentary and a pointed question.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Ms. Muir and Mr. Jones, could you give us your total budget and the breakdown of where the funding comes from? Obviously your groups are both doing excellent work.

[June Muir]

As you know, funding comes from the federal and the provincial governments working together. If I take a step back to my briefcase, I can give you those funding numbers. But we're funded for the training we provide and for placements. Of course, we're funded for the employees that we hire to do the training.

Without that funding we wouldn't be able to train these older workers. That's important; it's key. They need to be trained. Once they're trained, then we have our job developers who can market them. It's that training that's essential—

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you very much.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

I think we would benefit if we could get an example from Mr. Jones.

[June Muir]

I'll hand that in to you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

If you could give it to the clerk, then we'll distribute it.

[June Muir]

I will.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you very much, witnesses, for presenting.

We apologize for the abbreviated questions, but we do have to suspend for a moment to deal with committee business. Thank you, again.

I'll ask the members to stay. We need to deal with some committee business.

[Brad Butt, Conservative, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Mr. Chair, can I move that we go in camera, please?