Human Resources Committee on Feb. 13th, 2014

[Dick Heinen]

Yes, we are in favour of secret ballots. We think that's the right way to go. However, not all circumstances are ideal for a secret ballot vote; as I alluded to, in these remote locations where secret ballot votes simply don't work because of logistics.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you very much.

Now we'll move on to Mr. Cuzner for five minutes from the Liberal Party.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thanks very much.

Thanks to all the witnesses who are here today.

This legislation will have an impact on 1.25 million Canadian workers.

Ms. MacPherson, you indicate that over 10 years there were 23 cases, and that only six of those cases were alleged to have been intimidation or coercion on the part of the employer, and only two on the part of the unions?

[Elizabeth MacPherson]

Four were upheld against employers. There were 23 cases where allegations were made. Four were found to have merit against employers and two against the unions. With the unions, it was an inter-union rivalry situation in both cases.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

The sponsor of the bill said, and this is his quote, “When we hear one person complain about the actions of union organizers, that can be dismissed as a one-off situation. However when we see the mountain”—the mountain—“of complaints that end up at the labour relations board, it is concerning to me.”

Would you consider six a mountain or a hill? A bump?

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Elizabeth MacPherson]

It depends on your definition of a mountain.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Always the bureaucrat.

What are the anticipated expected costs in the application of this legislation?

[Elizabeth MacPherson]

As our paper indicates, we currently hold representation votes in about 18% to 20% of the cases that come before us. If we had to hold representation votes in 100% of the cases, that would quintuple our workload. We estimate we would require three more industrial relations officers at about $200,000 in operating money. That doesn't include the costs if we have to meet the concerns about remote locations that Mr. Heinen has expressed. If we decided that we had to go to an electronic voting system, that's probably the most expensive way to hold a vote. It costs about $2,700.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Do you believe the organization has the resources to handle that?

[Elizabeth MacPherson]

Currently we haven't.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

You haven't currently? Okay, so it would be substantially more.

Does the Industrial Relations Board have any evidence or reason to believe that the current card check system is allowing union coercion of workers in the certification process?

[Elizabeth MacPherson]

I think the jurisprudence and the statistics speak for themselves.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

This was drawn from a response to his constituents. When I get concerns about constituents, they're asking if there is any way I can offer them a letter of reference or help get them into a union. I've never heard anybody contact my office and ask if I could get them out of a union.

My son was a member of CLAC. I can't say enough about the support he got from CLAC. I'm very pleased; sharing of information, it was all positive.

How much time do I have?

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

You have about a minute and a half.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Mr. Chera, I missed the first part of your presentation. I apologize for that. How many members did you say you have?

[Satinder Chera]

We have 109,000.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

You have 109,000. You surveyed your members about whether or not they believed a secret ballot was important?

[Satinder Chera]

That's correct.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

How many of the 109,000 voted to support the secret ballot?

[Satinder Chera]

To be clear, a total of about 15,000 responses came in. Of those 15,000, 76% were in support.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

So the bill would not have passed your association under this legislation where the non-voters count as a “no”?

[Satinder Chera]

It would not, no.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thanks.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you, Mr. Cuzner. We won't get into deciding on molehills or mountains when we're talking politics because it's very subjective at that point, but thank you for those questions.

We'll move on to Mr. Shory from the Conservative Party for five minutes.