Human Resources Committee on Feb. 25th, 2014

[Jeffrey Cyr]

Absolutely. I'll try to brief, Mr. Chair, in trying to get a word in.

Quite simply, that person would walk into what they know; aboriginal people tend to go where they know. Our experience is they'll either walk into the friendship centre or the Métis local they know. Otherwise, you're advertising to bring the young people in.

Friendship centres are excellent at what I call brokering. That's why they were created by aboriginal people for aboriginal people. You come in the door, and here's where you need to go. Here's the ASETS holder who is going to provide that linkage, that education, that training, or that skill if the friendship centre itself is not doing it. Then what usually happens is that young woman may also need child care, education, and housing, all those other wraparound services that I spoke about. That's where we come in and say, “Okay, here is the other set of services”.

One thing I want to be clear on is that we're not proposing to take away from ASETS holders who do their job well. We're quite clearly in the situation where we want to direct there. We're not going to recreate things that have taken 15 to 20 years to set up in terms of skills and training. So it's more of a directional service where people find out where they go. Where's the door? A lot of people will know friendship centres. They may know their Métis local. They'll walk in and now where do they go? So that referral service is what you're getting at in that capacity.

[David Chartrand]

Oh, wow, thank you.

In our system it's quite a simple process. In fact, if a woman walks through our door, we have an intervention system that would look to her skill set, where she's at right now, and what would she need. We'd also be sitting down with the union because when you deal with a bigger industry, the union's always involved, so you have to figure out how to make sure, because there are specific rules in a union. So we sit down with the union and establish the process of partnership to ensure that the young lady would find her position somewhere in there.

We have a mechanism where we sit down with the actual client and we establish all the necessary skills. Then we also partner with the mining industry in the sense of making sure of the area where the person would be needed most. We would then gear that person, and if we have to go to levels of trade to reach that particular level, then we'll work there.

Where the challenges lie are on the apprentice side because the provinces.... For example, I made reference that I was going to speak on job grants. There is no reference to aboriginal at all in the job grants transition; it's actually the provinces. In the past the province never had to collect data; we always collected data on every dollar that was invested in every student. Provinces did not collect data. I'm hoping that this time they'll be forced to collect data, because in the job grants that they're talking about on the apprentice, that lady would probably fit that position if the $5,000, $5,000, and $5,000 was available for long-term guaranteed employment.

From our perspective, as I've seen in evidence in my province, there is no relationship with the province when it comes to the so-called money, LMAs and LMDA money that comes into our province. There is no relationship with the Métis. So when this outcry comes that aboriginal people are losing out, that's not true, because we're not getting anything from that money. In fact, they tell us to use our own money, the federal money that we receive.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you, Mr. Chartrand, I'm going to have to cut you off. Sorry, sir.

Now we'll go on to Mr. Cuzner for five minutes.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thanks very much.

I appreciate that the three presentations were thorough. We do appreciate that, and I'll look forward to getting that supplemental document that you have there, Mr. Cyr.

I'll start with Mr. Boisvert and then go to the others. You're saying, in the Métis situation, it's clear that access to funding is the single largest barrier that's not allowing you to fully succeed as a nation.

[David Chartrand]

We're doing very well in the sense of the ASETS itself, where we've ranked the top 10 out of 85 holders in this country. We've ranked the top 10 for the last 15 years, and we're doing very well. Where the challenge lies, of course, is that we don't have child care, for example. There is no child care for us so we have to take whatever dollars we presently have and use that not just as a training investment to the private sector in our educational institutions, we have to use that also for child care. It diminishes the amount of dollars there. As pointed out earlier in the first question that was asked, there's never been an increase in this program, for several decades now. That's been a downfall. While everything else is increasing, the cost of living, etc., there's never been an increase. So it's been a massive challenge for that aspect of it.

I think, overall, there are so many different components that you'll see in our larger brief, where just the investment alone, both on the educational side and the employment side...how this country will benefit from the great rise in GDP in respect to the earnings and profits that'll come. It shows there, and I want to set out this point for everybody. We as Métis people paid $1.6 billion last year in taxes, so this is not a charity. This is our taxes that they've given back to us in some form or fashion. It's very important that's understood.

In general terms, it must also be noted—I would encourage every member around this table—this is one of the best programs that I've ever seen come out of Canada, and I've been in politics for a long time.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Great.

This is probably for Ms. Blanchard and Mr. Cyr. When we measure success for native women, for example, are we able to break down the success between those who are living in closer proximity to urban centres and those who are living in rural or remote communities? Are there those types of measurements out there? Anecdotally, we can see that some rural and remote sectors in the non-aboriginal community are facing very similar challenges. Might I be able to get some input as to whether or not that's being measured?

[Beverly Blanchard]

We haven't necessarily had any research that segments the marketplace and segments where the successes are aligned. We have individuals, and everything in success is deemed in terms of a point, the individual. The problem with a lot of the successes and the problem, as you say, with non-aboriginal communities, too, that are rural...and it's the proximity or the closeness to what you're calling an urban centre. Even within an urban centre you have major difficulties. If you look at Toronto, where in certain areas you have individuals living, it's very difficult to segment out that whole success pattern, and then you also have...where are the jobs? We have resource development that is happening now so we have some potentials and some possibilities there, but we also have a lot of communities, aboriginal and non-aboriginal, that are having the brain drain to urban centres like Toronto.

[Jeffrey Cyr]

I guess it all comes down to your definition of “success”, first of all, exactly what you're going to measure. If your measure is quite simply an output of that person going through a program and getting a job, then that's fairly straightforward. You can use the national household survey or performance census data, a breakdown by data dissemination there. You can sort of get there. I'm not sure what that's telling you at the end of the day, though.

I would say that success is more likely long term. It's more likely longevity of a career path, or what I call economic resiliency. So how long has that person been in the economy? In what way do they participate? One of the problems with some of the measures coming out of government ASETS is kind of like that. It's an output measurement as opposed to a pure outcome measurement. So an output measurement wouldn't measure over a period of time, and that's a complicated thing to do. It's not easy. We do it under some of our youth programming to measure over periods of time. I think that's where it has to go because what you're looking for is what the demonstrable change is that we're making in the lives of aboriginal people.

So it may be okay to get a job for $140,000 working in the oil patch, but if you're out of that job in four years—you bought your shiny four-by-four, and then you get into all kinds of issues, maybe with substance abuse and other stuff, which we see at our centres all the time, in Fort McMurray and Lac la Biche, and all these areas—then we have a different problem. So there's success at one level, but long-term success is a little bit different. I think we're going to need to get smarter about how we measure that.

Those are the sorts of conversations we're hoping to have.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Great. Thank you very much. That's right on five minutes.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here. This is a study that we'll be engaged in for a number of weeks, and we appreciate your input. We also appreciate your coming to Ottawa and sharing your views with us.

Committee, we'll break while we change over to our second group of presenters.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Welcome back to the second round of witnesses today on our study of opportunities for aboriginal persons in the workforce.

In the next hour we're joined by Mr. Scott Wells, the acting chief executive officer and manager of finance with the Kakivak Association. From Yellowknife, Northwest Territories, by video conference, we have Charlie Evalik, president of the Kitikmeot Inuit Association, and also by video conference, Mr. Stephen Crocker, director of aboriginal employment strategies at the PTI Group Inc.

Welcome to our witnesses.

We'll get started right away with your presentations. You each have 10 minutes. I'll give you a signal with approximately one minute left.

We'll start with Mr. Wells.

[Scott Wells, Acting Chief Executive Officer and Manager of Finance, Kakivak Association]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Before I begin, I ask your leave to distribute this document. It's a bilingual tumbled document, but the languages are English and Inuktitut, as opposed to English and French. I would ask your leave to distribute the document, even though the French is not included, if that might be possible.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

I would need the unanimous consent of the committee members for that distribution.

Do I see it? I don't think I do.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Mr. Chair, clearly, not having a document in French always places us in a fairly delicate position. People are always told ahead of time that documents must be bilingual.

Since I already accepted a unilingual document during the first round of questions, I will also accept this one. However, as far as I am concerned, in the future it is out of the question for me to accept a unilingual document.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

I believe that means that we have unanimous consent for the distribution of that document.

It will be the last time, though, committee members, so you've been just informed of that.

Mr. Wells, please proceed.

[Scott Wells]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, committee.

Kakivak Association is located in Iqaluit in Nunavut. We serve the Baffin region, the Qikiqtaaluk region of Nunavut, 13 fly-in communities, sparsely populated. Our smallest community is 138 people. Our largest community is 7,000 people, the capital Iqaluit. We are an ASETS holder. We are an AFI, an aboriginal financial institution, and the programs we deliver are very much dependent on federal program financing.

We deliver the YES program, the Youth Employment Services program, that prepares individuals, young individuals, to start thinking about continuing their education beyond school and high school into post-secondary for some type of career training, some type of employment. We deliver the FNICCI program, the first nations and Inuit child care initiative. That's very important for our clients in order to continue their studies. They need child care in order to enter the workforce, so that's a very important program.

As an ASETS holder we deliver employment training and wage subsidy-type programs. If you look at the statistics for Nunavut, of the 17- and 18-year-olds in our territory we have 50% attendance in grade 12. Obviously the graduate rate from my school is in the 40%. We are getting a group of people beyond high school who really need to be taken a long way in order to commence training for post-secondary education.

That puts a big strain on ASETS dollars, on training dollars, on resources in general. We'll get people out of high school who we will have to put into a pre-trades training program to elevate their math and science skills in order to go into welding or plumbing or carpentry or anything of that nature.

As an AFI, an aboriginal financial institution, we rely on the CEDP program, the community economic development program, that's administered up our way by CanNor. That allows us to work with businesses. We do three things with businesses. We do a lot of pre-work opportunity identification, assisting businesses with things like business plans, feasibility studies, and things of that nature.

Then when it comes to financing the business, we have resources that we can call into play to assist with the formation or purchase of the business. We have Inuit land claims dollars money, the Sivummut and Makigiaqvik funds. We have the aboriginal business development program-type funds. So we have assistance that we can leverage along with our own dollars to partner with other organizations, other agencies, in order to get a business started, or purchased, or expanded.

Then there's the aftercare of course. We work with a lot of businesses for aftercare. Our success rate with businesses in the last 10 years has been about 80%. So that's a significant success rate with respect to businesses.

With respect to our post-secondary education training, we believe that our measures and HRSDC's measures are not quite in sync because...basically you heard a little bit previously about the reporting burden. I don't wish to use the word “burden”, the reporting requirements I guess. It doesn't quite tell the story. With respect to post-secondary education for our folk, we have to bring them a long way as we're dealing with a multi-barrier. A lot of clients are multi-barriered. They don't have a lot of attachment to the workforce. They don't have high school graduation. So there are a lot of issues to deal with. We have to move them a long way.

The monitoring and reporting requirement is six months after their graduation. We would train individuals, for example, for the Baffinland mine, which I'm sure you've heard about. We might train heavy equipment operators in September and October, but they might not go to work there until the next August, so that's not captured.

Because we operate career centres, individuals walk in our door and we deal with clients, redirecting people. As the previous presentation indicated, they go where they know. The Kakivak Association has been a name in Nunavut in the Baffin-Qikiqtaaluk region for 20 years. People know our 800 number, 0911. Call 911 when you need help is our 800 number.

People come to us. They call our 800 number. We deal with our parent organizations that have a liaison officer in every community. We have a small resource centre in every single one of the 13 communities we serve. They're not connected by road. It's fly-in only. They go to them. They connect with us. People know where to go, and we assist them with their applications for post-secondary education. We assist them with their applications for the territorial financing called FANS, financial assistance for Nunavut students. We do a fair bit of work.

A lot of that is not captured, you know, the ticking of clients that we serve. It's the contacts we have, but people know where to find us and they know the programs. They know the youth employment strategy. They know where to come when they want summer employment program assistance. We have a program called the Inuit youth work experience program. We try to get high school and young adults into an Inuit youth work experience program, so they can see the opportunities out there and the requirements that they will have to fulfill to get a job in that field.

It's a considerable amount of work over a large geographical area with a small population that has multiple barriers in a lot of cases, that has limited opportunities in the community itself.

The question was asked in the previous presentation is budget the biggest impediment to our success in moving our success further along? The YES program, the youth employment strategy, was cut 18% this past year. That obviously didn't help. We have nearly 20% less for summer student employment, 20% less for the Inuit youth work experience program, and that certainly didn't help.

Money is not the total issue. We need employer partnerships and we work to build those. We rely on those. We need partnerships with other organizations similar to ours, with training institutions, and we work to build on those.

The biggest impediment is money, and it's certainly a concern. If we had more dollars we could hire more staff. If we had more dollars we could put more resources into programs, but the fact remains that we have a high school program that our premier, Peter Taptuna, realizes needs work. The new premier's emphasis is education. Kids need to get up in the morning and go to school and he recognizes that.

No matter how much money Kakivak would provide, we need a partnership with parents and with high schools and communities to get the kids into school. Less than 50% is unacceptable, so money is not the total problem. We need to overcome a lot of barriers.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you very much.

Now we move on to our two witnesses by video conference. First to Mr. Evalik from Yellowknife, sir, you have 10 minutes.

[Charlie Evalik, President, Kitikmeot Inuit Association]

Thank you.

First of all, thanks for having me. I'm Charlie Evalik. I'm president of Kitikmeot Inuit Association.

I'd like to make a presentation to you. I'll give you a little bit of background of our region and our organization as well as on Inuit employment, touching upon the labour market, major employers, and future opportunities. Then I'll touch on Inuit education from kindergarten to grade 12 and on post-secondary and adult education as well as the aboriginal skills employment strategy, which is known as ASETS.

As background, we are the westernmost of Nunavut's three regions. There are two other regions: Kivalliq region, or X0C; and Qikiqtaaluk region, or X0A. Kitikmeot has five communities, all of them predominantly populated by Inuit. The total population of the Kitikmeot region is 6,472, based on the 2013 statistics. The beneficiary population of the Inuit is 5,554. The languages spoken in our region are English, Inuktitut, and Inuinnaqtun. We have year-round access only by air, with marine access during the summer.

As for the background of our organization, Kitikmeot Inuit Association was incorporated in 1976 to represent the interests of the Kitikmeot Inuit. The initial years were spent pursuing land claims and political empowerment. With the signing of the Nunavut Land Claims Agreement in 1993, KIA's focus shifted towards program delivery, social and economic governance, and management of Inuit-owned lands.

KIA's mandate is to represent the interests of the Kitikmeot Inuit by protecting and promoting our social, cultural, political, environmental, and economic well-being.

As to the governance structure of our organization, it is governed by a nine-member board of directors. Directors are elected to four-year terms by Kitikmeot Inuit beneficiaries. We have an executive committee of KIA comprised of me as president, a first vice-president, a vice-president of finance, as well as a vice-president of economic development.

KIA is organized into four departments: planning and communications, beneficiary services—this is the key one for our discussions for today—finance, and lands and environment. We have a total staff of 28 across our Kitikmeot region.

Beneficiary services' education and employment plans and delivers programs that enhance Inuit culture and language and advance wellness, education, and training. It provides community economic and business development programming and funding, and manage allocation of KIA contributions, scholarships, and grants. We access third-party funding for programs and services delivered, including the ASETS program.

Concerning Inuit employment and the Kitikmeot economy, Inuit in the region moved to the wage economy within the past 50 years. Historically, the fur trade and distant early warning sites were major sources of income for the Inuit. In the modern economy, the region is highly dependent on government jobs and government transfer payments.

Private businesses in the region battle high costs for materials, labour, utilities, and capital. All are more expensive than in the south. Mining has been part of our economy in the past. Currently there are no operating mines, but we have promising properties in the Kitikmeot region.

As for our labour force, labour force statistics show that Inuit have a harder time finding work than non-Inuit. Employment rate estimates are 46% for the Inuit.

The unemployment rate estimate is at 19% for the Inuit. The labour force is young and growing rapidly; 30% of the Kitikmeot population is under 14 years of age and another 20% is aged between 15 and 24 years. This means that half of our population is 24 years old or younger. These statistics are from the Nunavut Bureau of Statistics, by which “labour force” is defined as all aged 15 and over.

Major employers include the government sector, which is estimated to account for 50% of all employment; retail trades, another sector, estimated to account for 12%; accommodation, construction, mining, and exploration, together estimated to account for 15% of employment in the region. Arts and traditional, though hard to track, are an important part of our economy: trapping, fishing, hunting, clothing, and art production. Fisheries are a major source of employment but are centred in the east.

As for future opportunities, you may have heard that the Canadian high arctic research station, known as CHARS, will offer employment and business opportunities, mostly to Cambridge Bay residents. A recent impact study will help community and other organizations to prepare and to maximize benefits.

Among mining projects, the Hope Bay gold belt is under development. Among other products, commodities include base metals and diamonds.

Growth is expected in mining, construction, tourism, and other sectors. Under business and economic development, KIA supports Inuit businesses through two funding programs. Funds are from Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated, which is our parent company. Self-employment and small businesses are important options that need to develop further in the years to come.

Concerning Inuit education, schools in every Inuit community provide kindergarten to grade 12 education. Schools are operated by the Government of Nunavut's Department of Education. Some of the major issues include attendance rates, which are around 70%—three out of ten students are not in school. Graduation rates are low in Nunavut, at 37%, and the Kitikmeot community has the lowest in the territory at around 22%.

Concerning social conditions, many students suffer because of poverty, lack of food, and overcrowded homes. Other issues affecting education include that the residential school system is still being felt in our region.

For adult education, Nunavut Arctic College provides post-secondary and adult education programs across the region. The regional campus is located in Cambridge Bay. Student support funding is through the Government of Nunavut as well as through our organization, KIA.

Among the issues is funding. Many Nunavut Arctic College programs are not core-funded. The search for core funding is a constant challenge. The infrastructure deficit includes adult education. For example, a long-planned mining training centre in Cambridge Bay has been delayed once again.

Not enough trades training is taking place. There is a lack of skilled Inuit journeypersons. As to post-secondary education, KIA encourages Inuit to continue their education following high school graduation. We offer graduation awards and scholarships to the Inuit.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

You have about one minute, sir.

[Charlie Evalik]

Thank you

We need to increase post-graduation enrolment. The need to increase the number of graduates in our K-to-12 system is essential.

We deliver ASETS as well—that is, the aboriginal skills employment and training strategy—and we do it through our partnership with the Government of Canada. Some of the recent programs under it have been culinary arts, midwifery, Nunavut Sivuniqsavut. This is demand-driven programming. ASETS is driven toward jobs that might be available once training has taken place.

In conclusion, the KIA is committed to supporting Inuit employment and education in our region. The challenges facing Inuit in our region are significant. There are upcoming opportunities that could improve the lives of our beneficiaries. It is only through strong partnerships with our partners that KIA will help Inuit move forward.

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak to you this morning. Thanks very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you, sir.

Now, from Edmonton, is Stephen Crocker.

Stephen, you have 10 minutes.

[Stephen Crocker, Director, Aboriginal Employment Strategies, PTI Group Inc.]

Thank you for inviting PTI Group to make this presentation to the House of Commons Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities.

I am director of aboriginal employment strategies with the PTI Group. I'd like to first provide you with a brief overview of PTI, who we are and what we do, as this provides an important context regarding our aboriginal engagement. Then I'd like to share our experiences working with ASETS in western Canada, identify some barriers, and finally, make some recommendations.

PTI was incorporated in 1977, in Peace River, Alberta, and stands for Peace Trailer Industries, and provides camp rental accommodations to the oil and gas industry in Alberta. Since then PTI has grown into one of the largest most remote site accommodation companies in Canada.

Based in Edmonton, Alberta, PTI Group is a publicly traded, vertically integrated remote site accommodation company. We design, manufacture, install, and operate over 18,000 remote site accommodation rooms in western and northern Canada, the United States, and Australia.

In Canada many of our facilities are located on first nations traditional lands. In many cases PTI Group must enter into aboriginal consultation with first nations and Métis groups for new site developments. Many of our customers have entered into impact benefit agreements with first nations and Métis, and in some cases there are contractual requirements that we engage aboriginal people, in whom our customers have an interest. Having good aboriginal relations is an important factor to our growth.

As we all know, aboriginal people are at the wrong end of many social indexes and I don't need to reiterate those details. Canada is facing a labour shortage in many industry sectors and in many regions of the country, especially in remote locations. We all know aboriginal people are the fastest growing segment of our population. Our collective goal is to harness this potential labour resource, thereby alleviating skill shortages.

Because of the nature of what we do and where we operate, PTI Group has unique opportunities to engage aboriginal people. We have employment opportunities at our corporate office in technical areas, such as engineering, electrical, mechanical, architectural, IT, management, and sales. At our factories we require carpenters, electricians, plumbers, general labourers. In our remote site accommodation facilities we require kitchen workers, housekeepers, and front-desk clerks. Overall, PTI aboriginal workforce participation rate has been as high as 9.8% and in some of our remote site facilities the rate is over 20% and growing.

We have forged excellent working relationships with many first nations and Métis groups to provide us with employees. We have close relationships with many ASETS holders and work very closely with their human resource and development training personnel. Since 2010, and in partnership with ASETS holders, PTI has hired over 500 aboriginal people and we have successfully delivered seven aboriginal camp cook programs involving 64 first nations and Métis participants. Thus far we have achieved an 84% graduation rate, with all the graduates attaining kitchen positions at PTI. Aboriginal Camp Cook 8 is planned for the summer of 2014 with an ASETS holder.

Working with Oteenow Employment and Training, the urban ASETS holder in Edmonton, we delivered an introduction to trades program in 2013. The graduates all obtained trade positions at our factories in Edmonton and a second program is planned for this year.

Through our direct recruitment with first nations and Métis, we have obtained a measure of success, and PTI Group is committed to building upon our successes by employing and training more aboriginal people. We are active participants with the Aboriginal Human Resource Council, using their services and products to industry to enhance aboriginal inclusion at PTI.

Over the past four years we have learned a number of lessons. Not all aboriginal people are ready for employment. Many lack basic literacy and numeracy skills. Many have never experienced the rigours of having full-time employment. Careful selection of employees is required and we heavily rely on ASETS holders to assist us with making the right selections.

Living and working in a remote site location away from family and friends and community has different workplace dynamics and stresses and challenges than a position where the employee is home every night. In the process we have identified a number of barriers to employment with some first nations people.

In our opinion, the major barrier is transportation from home to work or from their community to remote site locations. This became evident during our first aboriginal recruitment when we asked the applicants if they had a driver's licence. One half had licences and no vehicles, and the other half had vehicles and no licences. We realized we had a transportation barrier. But working with the ASETS holder we found a solution. In order to move aboriginal people from social assistance living on reserve to financial independence in an industrial setting, we need to build a bridge with each ASETS holder. Industry can only build part of that bridge and ASETS holders need to be involved.

As you well know, no two first nations are alike. Some are small. Some are large. Some are remote. Some are close to urban areas. Some are very successful and some are very, very poor. Therefore, the needs of each first nation are different and the bridge that I mention needs to be customized for every first nation. Industry can't build those aboriginal bridges to financial independence alone. Our experience is that when ASETS holders are working closely with us, retention rates go up. They help us make the right selections. They provide the necessary supports and encouragement after the person has been hired. There's ongoing dialogue to solve problems and overcome barriers, and they are providing transportation to the work site in order to keep the person employed.

Certainly, programs like ASETS need to be continued and enhanced. Without ASETS, hiring the number of aboriginal people we have would have been much more challenging for us, and we certainly would not have been able to run the training initiatives that we have undertaken thus far. Any new program needs to be flexible for ASETS holders and industry. Opportunities come and ASETS holders need to be able to respond quickly or the opportunity will pass them by. Commodity prices greatly affect resource extraction industries and although industry is planning many projects that potentially could employ thousands of people, a drop in the commodity prices may put a development on hold. ASETS holders may have to readjust their work plan quickly.

We have encountered severe literacy issues in some communities and in some cases many individuals can't read a safety exam. They are willing to work. They are ready to work. We would like to hire them but they're unable to work. We cannot hire someone who cannot read or fails a safety exam. Literacy in first nation communities is not the responsibility of industry, but is rather a barrier for first nations to move their members from social assistance to financial independence.

Funding needs to be flexible as no two first nations are the same. The funding model should be flexible enough to be able to address the particular barriers of that community and to seize upon the industry opportunities that are available in their region. In our case, there are ongoing activities by the ASETS holders to keep their members working, to provide a source of contact for us, ensuring transportation arrangements have been made, and helping the individuals in times of crisis. These are but a few examples. All of these aftercare support services to keep people employed come at a cost to the ASETS holder.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

You have about one minute, sir.

[Stephen Crocker]

Industry too has training initiatives that can provide opportunities for many aboriginal people. In some cases, these training initiatives, such as apprenticeship training, require a funding commitment over three or perhaps four years. Long-term training programs with ASETS holders or other federal government department training and employment initiatives are required.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you, sir.

Now we'll move on to our first round of questioning.

Madam Groguhé from the NDP leads for five minutes.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It was pointed out—and previous witnesses have also briefly mentioned it—that aboriginal nations face systemic barriers. I think the time has passed to go over these difficulties. We are familiar with them. Much literature exists on the subject.

However, there is one issue that has been troubling me since the beginning of this study, and I would like to hear your thoughts on the subject. For that matter, we have already raised it. We spoke of the importance and the need to offer first nations adequate basic education, which takes into consideration early childhood. We must also consider the issue of housing, which is catastrophic, as well as endemic social problems such as alcoholism, drug abuse, etc. There is also the issue of women, which in our opinion must be dealt with in a specific way. We are talking about gender here, and it is important to determine a specific context for women.

That being said, in the recommendations he has submitted to us, Mr. Crocker mentioned the need to apply flexible and distinct programs.

I would like the other witnesses, using their own expertise and taking into account the number of years these programs have existed, to tell us which recommendations they would like us to submit above all others so that an effective strategy can finally be implemented.