Human Resources Committee on Nov. 18th, 2014

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

This is meeting number 37 of the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities.

Today is Tuesday, November 18, 2014, and we're here at the request of the finance committee to study the subject matter of clauses 252 and 306 to 314 of Bill C-43, a second act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on February 11, 2014 and other measures.

Today we have a split panel of witnesses. We also have a few minutes set aside at the end of our meeting to deal with some committee business, which we will try to squeeze in.

Joining us now, from the Department of Employment and Social Development, we have: Ms. Kei Moray, director general of policy, appeals, and quality at the processing and payment services branch; Mr. Éric Giguère, director of employment insurance appeals at the processing and payment services branch; Alexis Conrad, director general for the temporary foreign worker program at the skills and employment branch; and finally, Mr. Benoît Long, senior assistant deputy minister, from the processing and payment services branch at Service Canada. From the Department of Citizenship and Immigration, we have Mr. Robert Judge, the director of the temporary resident policy and program.

Because of the time constraints, we would ask you to keep your comments to up to five minutes, and the shorter the better, as that allows more questioning.

Please proceed.

We'll start with Ms. Moray or whoever is talking for the department.

Is that you, Mr. Long? Thank you.

[Benoît Long, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Processing and Payment Services Branch, Service Canada, Department of Employment and Social Development]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will be speaking on behalf of our colleagues.

We are here to talk about part 4, division 19, of Bill C-43. Subclause 252(1) amends subsection 45(1) of the Department of Employment and Social Development Act by eliminating the legislative cap on the number of full-time Social Security Tribunal members and allowing for the appointment of part-time Social Security Tribunal members by the Governor in Council.

Subclause 252(2) repeals subsection 45(3) of the Department of Employment and Social Development Act. In essence, the workload criteria to appoint part-time members and the maximum amount of time that part-time members can collectively devote to their functions and duties are removed.

As you know, the Social Security Tribunal of Canada hears appeals related to the Canada Pension Plan, Old Age Security and Employment Insurance. Budget 2012 announced the creation of the Social Security Tribunal to replace four existing tribunals. The new tribunal was created with the objective of streamlining and simplifying the appeals process to provide a fair, credible and accessible appeals process for Canadians while achieving administrative efficiencies.

The SST began operating April 1, 2013. It received a transfer of appeals that had been filed with the four former tribunals. The number of transferred appeals exceeded that which had been forecast based on historical workload inventories of the former tribunals, particularly for pensions cases at the first level of appeal. In addition, the SST, as a newly created organization, is still in the ramping up phase and has not yet reached its final steady state.

The SST and the department are committed to ensuring that the inventory of transferred appeals is addressed as quickly as possible. The current limits on the number of tribunal members are not sufficient to reduce the inventory of transferred appeals and address the regular intake of appeals.

The government wants to ensure that appellants receive a decision in a timely manner. The proposed amendment to the Department of Employment and Social Development Act to remove the limit on the number of full-time and part-time members is a key action to reduce the inventory.

In addition to the measures the tribunal is taking, the department is also taking actions to support the SST's productivity. For example, the department has fast-tracked the hiring of the full complement of part-time members provided under the legislation.

In addition, to help reduce the inventory of transferred cases, the department has set up a special unit to review transferred appeals to determine whether any could be settled as a result of new information. The department is also implementing an interim imaging solution on a priority basis which will help enable a more efficient administration and preparation of cases by the SST.

In conclusion, the department and the SST are taking a number of actions to reduce the inventory of transferred appeals, and the proposed amendments to the Department of Employment and Social Development Act represent a key element of the inventory reduction plans.

Thank you for your attention. My colleagues and I will be happy to take your questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you so much.

Now we move on to Mr. Conrad, for five minutes, sir.

[Alexis Conrad, Director General, Temporary Foreign Workers, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I will speak briefly to division 24.

On June 20, 2014, the Government of Canada announced an overhaul of the temporary foreign worker program, which was in response to growing concerns about the abuse and misuse of the program. These reforms are intended to ensure that the program continues to operate in the national interest.

The program reforms included splitting the TFWP into two distinct programs: the TFWP and the International Mobility Program. The TFWP now refers to those streams requiring a Labour Market Impact Assessment for a temporary foreign worker to enter Canada. The LMIA ensures that the foreign workers are used only as an option of last resort to address immediate skills and labour shortages on a temporary basis.

The new international mobility program includes those streams in which the entry of foreign nationals is not subject to a labour market impact assessment, such as those entering under free trade agreements that provide reciprocal benefits where the benefit to Canada has already been established. Agreements allow foreign nationals in certain occupations from partner countries to work in Canada without the requirement for a labour market test like the LMIA, and in turn allow Canadians to work abroad with similar advantages.

The temporary foreign worker program reforms were announced under three pillars. Pillar one is limiting access to the temporary foreign worker program to ensure Canadians are first in line for available jobs. Pillar two is more and better labour market information for stronger screening. Pillar three is stronger enforcement with tougher penalties. Collectively these reforms strike the right balance to ensure that the temporary foreign worker program is being used as intended, to assist employers in filling their genuine labour market requirements on a temporary basis when qualified Canadians and permanent residents are not available. Moreover, these reforms will help deter employers from breaking program rules, or face consequences if they choose to do so.

Reforms to the international mobility program were also announced that will put in place a robust compliance regime, enabling Citizenship and Immigration Canada to impose consequences on employers who are found to be non-compliant. To support the implementation of reforms to the temporary foreign worker program and international mobility programs, eight amendments to the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act were introduced under Bill C-43.

The first amendment would change all references of “opinion” to “assessment” to reflect the change from a labour market opinion to a labour market impact assessment.

The second amendment would seek the authority to make regulations for the collection, retention, and use of social insurance numbers. Social insurance numbers will be used for the administration of the two programs, including verifying employer compliance with program requirements such as the cap and transition plans.

The third amendment will support the stronger compliance regime in the temporary foreign worker program and the international mobility program by allowing regulations to the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations to require third parties, such as banks and payroll companies, to provide documents for the inspection of an employer's compliance with program rules. This would help the temporary foreign worker program and international mobility program in verifying information provided by employers in the context of an inspection.

The fourth amendment would seek the authority to create a list that will be used to publish names and addresses of employers found guilty of an offence under the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, or any other provincial or territorial law governing the regulation of employment or recruitment. The employers listed would be ineligible to access the temporary foreign worker program and international mobility program, the criteria for which would be set out in regulations.

The fifth amendment would allow regulations in the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations for ESDC to leverage a privilege fee on employers. This fee is for the privilege of hiring foreign workers, the details of which would be set out in regulations. It is estimated that it will be in the amount of $100 per temporary foreign worker.

The sixth amendment would allow regulations for the collection of a new compliance fee that applies to employers in relation to their employment of certain foreign nationals who are exempted from the requirements of an LMIA.

The seventh amendment would seek authority to require employers who are hiring through the international mobility program to submit a job offer and other relevant information directly to Citizenship and Immigration Canada by electronic means.

Finally, the eighth amendment is seeking the authority to make regulations for CIC to share information with provinces and territories for compliance and enforcement purposes.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you very much. I don't believe there are any other comments.

Committee members will have one round of questioning for five minutes, and each party will get a chance to ask questions.

We'll start with Madam Sims.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Thank you very much.

I want to thank all of you for being here. I know how busy your schedules must be.

Since this government insists on limiting time to such an extraordinary degree, I'm going to start with the temporary foreign worker program. I am really feeling the time constraints here.

Since the government gave itself new powers to inspect in December 2013, how many inspections have taken place?

[Alexis Conrad]

Unfortunately, Mr. Chair, I don't have the exact numbers with me.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Maybe you could get them to us, then?

[Alexis Conrad]

I will happily, in written response, provide any information that the committee would like.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

That would be great.

We've also heard multiple complaints from employers that the government's list of TFWs is completely inaccurate, yet there is nothing here that I can see that would improve the government's own labour market information.

Am I right about that, and is the department doing anything currently to make sure that this list is accurate?

[Alexis Conrad]

Sorry; just to be clear and to make sure I understand the question correctly, the list you're referring to is a list of companies that have abused the program?

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

And the numbers they have.

[Alexis Conrad]

In response to questions asked about the accuracy of our data, we have done a complete review of all the data. We found a very low—to be honest, almost miniscule—error rate by the department. There have been some cases where employers have come to us and said their numbers weren't accurate. In several cases, upon showing the employer the information they provided us, they have realized that they have actually made a mistake.

So we have systematically gone through the process.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

I really appreciate that. In the interest of time, maybe what you could do is get that information back to us. On the actual numbers—what the numbers are for the employers, and where there are discrepancies from what the employer says and what you have—I realize that you wouldn't have that just off the top of your head.

[Alexis Conrad]

I wouldn't, no.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Next, publicly listing employers who break provincial labour laws requires information-sharing agreements with the provinces. How many agreements exist, and how soon do you think all 10 provinces and the territories will sign?

[Alexis Conrad]

We've for several years had information-sharing agreements with the four western provinces. We've been working with all provinces not only to update those agreements but to sign new agreements. We have been actively negotiating in a very positive sense with every province and every territory, and I would expect that in a very short period of time we will be announcing new agreements.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Thank you.

I'm sorry; I'm trying to get through this as quickly as I can. I have lots of questions.

[Alexis Conrad]

I understand.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

My next question is with regard to the Social Security Tribunal. According to the tribunal's answer to an NDP order paper question, 70% of decisions are made without a hearing. But that sounds like cutting corners in order to deal with the current caseload. At the appeal division, it's 57%. At the same time, the statistics show that getting a hearing in person vastly increases a person's chance of success.

With more tribunal members, are we going to see less of this kind of corner-cutting and more in-person hearings that actually give Canadians a chance to share their side of the story?

[Benoît Long]

If I may, Mr. Chair, I think most of that should be answered by the SST itself, only because it looks to the inside and internal workings. Both ourselves and the SST are quite committed to making sure that we can work through and reduce the backlog.

I think some of the particulars of your question are better posed to the chair, who will be next here.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Thank you.

I'll go back to the temporary foreign workers question. I have a few more questions, and I have one minute to ask them.

Nothing in this bill, and it's really disturbing, provides greater protection to some vulnerable workers who arrive here as temporary foreign workers. I think over the last number of years we've seen story after story of abuse being exposed in the media and to various authorities. It's still possible for an employer to abuse a temporary foreign worker, and still be allowed to use the program again. Isn't the department concerned that this sends a message to employers that it's not too worried about how employers treat temporary foreign workers?

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Very quickly, please.

[Alexis Conrad]

I would argue that a lot of the amendments here and the program changes do actually directly impact the health and welfare of temporary foreign workers. The most important thing is that a strong enforcement and sanctions regime discourages employers from applying for the program if they were planning to cheat, and good inspections catch them. Some of the amendments here, for example, are proposing a regime that will allow us to ban employers from using the program if they break other employment laws. Obviously, when a worker is here, they are bound by the same laws as Canadians.

In my mind, this is a purposeful effort by the government to enhance the program in a way that will help protect temporary foreign workers.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you very much.

We'll move onto Mrs. McLeod for five minutes.