Evidence of meeting #4 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was officers.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Kin Choi  Assistant Deputy Minister, Labour Program, Compliance, Operations and Program Development, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Brenda Baxter  Director General, Workplace Directorate, Labour Program, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Sari Sairanen  Director, Health, Safety and Environment, Unifor
Lana Payne  Director, Atlantic Regional, Unifor

3:50 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Labour Program, Compliance, Operations and Program Development, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development

Kin Choi

Eighty per cent—

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS

Because many times there's a hazard identified, right?

3:50 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Labour Program, Compliance, Operations and Program Development, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development

Kin Choi

There are times when our officers will deal with ones where they'll go out and say, “But I've noticed this.” I think that's what you're driving at—

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS

Yes.

3:50 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Labour Program, Compliance, Operations and Program Development, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development

Kin Choi

That's precisely why we're trying to make these changes.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS

There will be a recommendation made.

3:50 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Labour Program, Compliance, Operations and Program Development, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development

Kin Choi

Yes, and it's working with—

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS

So there's still merit in that complaint, I would think.

3:50 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Labour Program, Compliance, Operations and Program Development, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development

Kin Choi

But I think, sir, that it continues to be what we're going to be able to do. In fact, we're hoping that this will free us up to do more of that type of work, which is prevention. I think we get ourselves behind the eight ball when we're asked to come in when there's a dispute, when there's a refusal. That's a sign that there's something else going on.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS

Could it be miscommunication? You're asking a worker to go into a particular area and perform a particular function, but the employer doesn't really explain the whole realm of the duty or the whole realm of the job. There may be a miscommunication or a lack of communication, so they think the worst and they say, “I'm going to refuse to take on that job.” Is that common?

3:50 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Labour Program, Compliance, Operations and Program Development, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development

Kin Choi

Well, I don't know if we have statistics on that, Mr. Cuzner, but I think that—

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS

That may be a worthwhile statistic, because as Ms. Sims said, the detail in the statistics I think would be of help.

3:50 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Labour Program, Compliance, Operations and Program Development, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development

Kin Choi

In our experience, from what we've seen and what we've heard from our officers, they're spending a lot of time in that type of process and they're not getting the time they need to do the proactive work. I don't think it's in conflict with what you're trying to promote or suggest.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS

Yes.

3:50 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Labour Program, Compliance, Operations and Program Development, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development

Kin Choi

I think we're actually on the same page, in that we want to have more time to do more prevention work—

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS

More time to do more prevention? How many officers do you have now?

3:50 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Labour Program, Compliance, Operations and Program Development, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development

Kin Choi

We have about 80 across the country.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS

That's down from 150 how long ago?

3:50 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Labour Program, Compliance, Operations and Program Development, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development

Kin Choi

I don't think it's down from 150. I think we've been at this rate.... We've averaged about 80. I've been in the program for a couple of years now. We've averaged—

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS

A couple of years, but it's the last eight years in particular.

3:50 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Labour Program, Compliance, Operations and Program Development, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development

Kin Choi

If I could answer, I think the average is about 80 over the last five years.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS

Okay, because my understanding is that there was a considerable cutback in the number of officers. There's been a decline over the last number of years, and it's gone down from about 150 to about 85.

3:50 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Labour Program, Compliance, Operations and Program Development, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development

Kin Choi

I can tell you that's not the case, respectfully. I think there have been some expressions of that from various quarters. We've had our rates of attrition as well, and as you know—

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS

Could you supply the committee with just a sort of chronology?

3:50 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Labour Program, Compliance, Operations and Program Development, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development

Kin Choi

Certainly. Yes, we can do that.