Human Resources Committee on Nov. 28th, 2013

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Okay, but does that mean that the companies will be in charge of setting up the training programs? Or will Kativik be looking after that? How will it happen?

[Ian Shugart]

The companies will be involved to a great extent, but Kativik will make the decisions, according to the employment needs and opportunities.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you for that answer.

Now we go to the government side, to Mr. Shory.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the minister and his officials.

Minister, one of the reasons I left my lucrative law practice—

[An hon. member]

[Inaudible--Editor]

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

—no, seriously—was my concern about the lack of foreign credential recognition. You know this is my passion.

Now, I have told this story before, and I'll share it once again. I hear it very often that maybe the best place to have a heart attack in Calgary is the back seat of a taxi. The reason is that there's a very good chance the driver is a foreign-qualified doctor.

I have been trying to understand over the last few years why on the one hand we have a skilled worker shortage that is of course holding back the economy, and on the other hand we have a long-standing problem with qualified newcomers being unable to apply their skills.

Being as you're here today, can you please tell me what is being done to ensure that these individuals can have their credentials recognized sooner?

I also understand that regulatory bodies are involved in this matter. Has your department reached out to those regulatory bodies?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Yes, very robustly.

Thank you, Mr. Shory, for your question and your commitment to this issue. I agree entirely, and at every opportunity I underscore how outrageous it is that we have been admitting over a quarter of a million permanent residents per year and yet 13% of new immigrants—those who have been in Canada for less than a decade—are unemployed, with of course many, many more underemployed; how this makes precisely no sense in the context of an economy with growing skill and labour shortages; and therefore how we must do a radically better job of facilitating the recognition of credentials of foreign-trained professionals and tradesmen.

That is why, Mr. Shory, in 2006 our government created the foreign credential referral office—originally that was at HRSDC, and then it moved to Citizenship and Immigration Canada—which, among other things, funded the availability of pre-arrival orientation sessions for selected economic immigrants before they leave their countries of origin. After they've been selected and while they're wrapping up their affairs at home, they can now get free two-day seminars and personalized counselling that focuses on how to find a job in Canada and begin the credential recognition process perhaps online before they even get to the country, to give them a head start. It can also advise them on which provinces it's easier and quicker to obtain licensure in for their profession.

Secondly, both the FCRO at Immigration Canada and the foreign credential recognition program at my ministry fund millions of dollars of grants and contributions every year to organizations, including licensing bodies, to do the detailed work of streamlining assessment exams.

In one big project, a pan-Canadian framework for the assessment and recognition of foreign qualifications and credentials, we've invested in the range of $50 million, working with the provinces and their respective self-governing professional licensing bodies, to streamline and accelerate the process of credential recognition across the country, as much as possible coming up with common standards from coast to coast.

This is not easy, simple work. It is very difficult, granular work that is being done. I do believe we are making progress, but at the end of the day, Mr. Shory, as you well know, we, the federal government, have no direct relationship with the licensing bodies. They are creatures of the provinces.

That is why, at my recent meeting with provincial counterparts, I called on them yet again for renewed political commitment to removing unnecessary barriers to credential recognition and licensure for immigrants and frankly—let me be blunt—putting more pressure on those licensing bodies that continue to engage in old-school labour protectionism, that see immigrant professionals perhaps as some kind of a threat.

As I always say, Mr. Shory, we don't want, and nor do immigrants expect us, to lower the Canadian standard. What they expect is at least an answer in a reasonable amount of time so that if the answer is “no” they can go and take additional education or perhaps move on to plan B.

The last point is that we have all sorts of other programs, including one that I'm most proud of that started out of our city of Calgary, the Alberta Immigrant Access Fund. We've now helped make this a kind of national approach to providing microcredit of up to $10,000, delivered through non-profits, who work out relationships with financial institutions to provide bridge financing for foreign-trained professionals so they can take additional education and pay for their certification exams and actually get a basic income while they're going back to school so they can reach the Canadian standard.

I think all of these small things together are having a cumulative effect.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you.

Time goes fast, Mr. Shory. We know this happens frequently.

On to Mr. Tremblay, from the opposition.

[Jonathan Tremblay, NDP, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for coming to answer our questions, Mr. Kenney.

I would like to go back to a visit by a witness to the Standing Committee on Finance. On November 18 of this year, François Masse, Chief of Labour, Market, Employment and Learning at the Department of Finance, stated that decisions on employment insurance were made independently of the $57 billion that had been in the fund.

You are the minister responsible for the Employment Insurance Financing Board. Do you think it is appropriate for premium rates to be established with no consideration of the total amount of the fund?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Some years ago, the government established a framework for determining the rates for premiums in order to make sure the fund is in balance in the medium term. The economy goes in cycles and the employment insurance fund is not balanced each year. Through the employment insurance commission, the government is assured of achieving a balance in the medium term.

That said, the government did not want to increase premiums now, given that we are going through a period of difficult economic growth. That is why we froze premiums for the next three years. The announcement has been well received by employers. The policy is designed to create jobs.

[Jonathan Tremblay, NDP, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

The minister before you admitted that no impact study had been conducted on employment insurance reform. Since that reform, a number of difficulties have arisen in some regions of the country and some sectors of the economy.

Do you intend to take any steps, such as possible pilot projects, transitional initiatives or other mechanisms, to help with the difficulties that those regions and sectors are experiencing?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

The employment insurance program already contains provisions for regions with a high unemployment rate. Conditions are more generous in regions with a high unemployment rate. People in those regions have to work fewer weeks than people in a region like mine, in Alberta. The structure of the program already accounts for differences in the labour market in every corner of the country.

[Jonathan Tremblay, NDP, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

Yet some transitional provisions have disappeared, measures that have been implemented pending the resolution of problems in given regions. Those measures have been abolished and have not been replaced.

I understand that the rules of the game have changed since employment insurance was reformed. Claims are denied retroactively, and not just for next year. I am not sure if this is connected to the quota issue, or whatever else it may be. But, in the past, officials used to look for ways of doing things that were allowed, but that no longer are. Claimants can be asked to pay back $20,000, $30,000 or $40,000. It has happened to some people in my riding.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

I do not know exactly what you're talking about.

Karen, can you answer?

[Karen Jackson, Senior Associate Deputy Minister, Employment and Social Development, Chief Operating Officer for Service Canada, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development]

I'm not sure that I really understand the problem that you're talking about either. We are not seeing any large jumps in trends toward denying benefits. It is playing, more or less, quite steady around those who are paying into the program and are entitled to benefits. About 80% to 85% of people coming to file for claim are, indeed, deemed eligible and are receiving benefits. That hasn't changed an awful lot time over time at all.

[Jonathan Tremblay, NDP, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

Under which circumstances can money be reclaimed retroactively?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

We try to reclaim benefits retroactively only if we find out that the claimant obtained them fraudulently. I believe that there is a process that determines whether a person has filed an irregular claim.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you very much.

On to Mr. Mayes, from the government side, for five minutes.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, it's great to see you here today.

I was a former chair of the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development, and also spent much of my youth in northern Canada. I've always had an interest in engaging aboriginal youth in attaining jobs and independence. I was glad to see that our Budget 2013 had $241 million over five years to provide skills training to youth on reserve.

Could you explain a little about the main features of the new first nations job fund, and who's eligible and how that's rolling out?

Also, could you just touch a bit on how the department is interacting with INAC on the rollout?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Mayes.

You've identified what I think is perhaps the single most important thing we could do. We all know that our greatest social problems, sadly, tend to be experienced disproportionately by our aboriginal people. We recognize that much of the economic development occurring in our country is in aboriginal parts of the country and that many of the companies there are facing skills shortages.

Anything we can do to prepare young Canadian aboriginals in particular for those jobs solves many problems at once: skills shortages, facilitating growth, and helping young aboriginal Canadians to realize their potential. That is why we are investing very significantly in aboriginal skills development, particularly through the first nations job fund, which, as you've identified, is committing $241 million to connect first nations youth between the ages of 18 and 24 with skills training and jobs.

We do this in collaboration with first nations organizations in various regions of the country. We try to get feedback from them on their priorities. We encourage them to approach us, in partnership with employers as much as possible. We want to see a private sector commitment to that job training.

Let me blunt. We are not going to succeed in getting unemployed young aboriginals into the workforce in significant numbers without a hard money commitment from the private sector. This is a larger message that I've been sending, by the way, to the private sector, which I hope my friends from the NDP would applaud. I have said that Canadian governments spend more than virtually any other governments in the developed world on skills development and job training, but the Canadian private sector, according to the OECD, is at the bottom end of the developed world in skills development and job training.

As to Mr. Cuzner's reference to some of the aggregate labour market information, I'm very concerned. We keep hearing complaints, today from John Manley at the Council of Chief Executives, and last week the Canadian Chamber of Commerce—all those organizations—about skills shortages. Yet the labour market information tells us that wage levels on an aggregate basis have barely been keeping pace with inflation.

I've said bluntly and publicly to employers that if they want a solution to the problem of the skills mismatch, they have two big market levers at their disposal. One is a greater investment in training that should focus on under-represented groups in the labour force, like aboriginals, and another is wage levels.

I said that in Vancouver, Ms. Sims, and the only person who applauded me was Jim Sinclair from the B.C. Federation of Labour. So I am pleased to be onside—

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

And I have tried—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

There you are. I'm pleased to be onside with the brotherhood.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

I'm a little worried about that.