Human Resources Committee on Feb. 4th, 2014

[Ian Anderson]

Certainly, Ms. McLeod. It's good to see you again.

We most definitely would have the connection at both levels. First and foremost, I think it's critically important that we have chief-to-chief relationships, a senior management-to-council relationship, and that we form them at the very beginning to understand what the needs, the capacity, and the aspirations are of the community.

As you can appreciate, my business being in the pipeline, we will touch between Edmonton and Vancouver over a hundred different aboriginal communities and territories. Our program is designed much like Ms. Flynn's, to be tailored to individual communities' needs, goals, and aspirations.

We'll also have staff-to-staff relationship developed with the ASETS program capacity holder and coordinator and build from that with the clear indication from the top, if you like, in the senior leadership, that this is something which is critically important that we want to pursue.

My colleague, Martha Matthew, from the Kamloops area, has a couple of words to add as well.

[Martha Matthew, Consultant - Training and Employment, Trans Mountain Pipeline Expansion Project, Kinder Morgan Canada]

I have come from the ASETS community, so that relationship, in particular in B.C., is very strong with my former ASETS colleagues there. As well, I have had the opportunity to meet with my colleagues in Alberta through various national meetings. Definitely there is a strength there.

Thank you.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Ms. Flynn.

[Kara Flynn]

Certainly we would be the same. We dialogue at multiple levels. Chiefs to chiefs are very important to us. They're actually tracked to make sure we have them on a regular basis. We also have elder advisory committees from each of the first nations that work with our consultation staff. We will have formal consultation on regulatory applications or formal issues on our plant site. We also track all of our informal, more relationship, constant contact with the community activities.

We make sure that Syncrude isn't just going in when we need to formally consult, but we have constant contact—

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you. Sorry, I want to get one more question in and I wanted Mr. Mercredi to respond also.

Do you have a formal relationship with the ASETS holder?

[Russel Mercredi]

Yes, we do, through those two programs I mentioned, Northern Career Quest and the Mineral Sector Steering Committee. They are fully aware of what our plans are and what we ask of them as well.

With regard to the leadership of communities, we do have formal and informal meetings. We have five community liaisons who reside right in the communities, who can meet with members on a daily basis. As well, we have formal channels such as round tables or collaboration agreements with specific communities.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Great.

I really appreciated the comments in terms of the industry and the industry identifying the needs and it actually connecting with the goals, dreams, and aspirations of the communities. Certainly, as we look towards moving forward with our Canada job grant, that is a goal where we have the participation of the Government of Canada, industry, and of course the province.

Within your industries right now, do you have provincial programs that are intersecting with what you're doing also?

Mr. Anderson, I will ask you to lead off with that.

[Ian Anderson]

I think primarily we've worked, Ms. McLeod, with provincial programs that exist, for example, some of the apprenticeship programs at some of the institutions and trade schools. We've also intersected with Skill Builders, which I referred to earlier. It's a utility-based program that is provincially supported. Any other provincial program that is designed to identify trades and build the capacity of trades we'd be directly tied to.

I might add that one of the concerns we have is, at the high school level, the absence of any real trades programs in B.C. in particular and perhaps beyond that. We still see trades being post-secondary programs. Back in my day, when I went to high school, I went to a trades school where children at the ages of 16 and 17 were starting to learn trades within the high school program. That's been largely dropped from the curriculum of high schools these days. I think there's a niche there that we should revisit as we look over the next generation for trades.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

We don't have time to move to the other two witnesses, but if you wish to respond in further exchanges here, please feel free to.

Now we go to Mr. Cuzner from the Liberal Party for five minutes.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'll start with Ms. Flynn.

I just want to go back.... I fully respect Neil Young's opinions on the oil sands and oil sands development, but I just wish he had been much more informed, particularly with regard to the work that's been done with first nations communities in Fort McMurray.

Having been out there back when Syncrude was just firing up and it was still Great Canadian Oil Sands across the street, I know there was a focus then on allowing opportunities for first nations and first nations communities. I know you continue to work on that to try to improve it. It's in your own best interests and Syncrude identified that early on.

I would argue that Suncor and Syncrude could probably be used as two companies with best practices in engagement in first nations communities.

I want you to talk a little bit about Fort Chip. Having had the opportunity to go to Fort Chip back in the early eighties, I can tell you there wasn't a whole lot there. You're talking about what you're doing now is fly-in, fly-out, but is Syncrude or Suncor actually doing some business there? There's some manufacturing there in that community, as well. Is Syncrude doing that?

[Kara Flynn]

Mr. Cuzner, it's nice to see you again.

The Athabasca Chipewyan First Nation actually has a business up in Fort Chip called Chip Manufacturing. They supply clothing, the wristlets, the elastic protectors that go around the sleeves of coveralls to protect them from getting caught in machinery. Those are manufactured up in Fort Chip by Acden. They're our sole source, I believe, for the entire industry in the oil sands and in Fort McMurray for that piece of clothing.

Both Syncrude and Suncor, as well as many of the other oil sands companies working in our region, do business, large sums of business, with both the Mikisew Cree First Nation and the Athabasca Chipewyan First Nation. The Fort McKay Group of Companies is obviously right on our doorstep and has a significant number of businesses providing services to the oil sands. All of us are using the services from those first nations.

It is important to point out that for Syncrude at least, business is business, and the business we choose to do and are able to do with first nations or aboriginal companies is because it makes good business sense for us. We will not change that approach based on any potential concerns that are expressed to us on the consultation side of our relationship. We actually keep those two dialogues separate.

We believe investing in the employment and business development side is something that helps mitigate our impacts from our operations on the traditional lands of aboriginal peoples. That's why we focus on it so much.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Perhaps I can get comments from each of you about your relationships with the educational institutions.

I know that Syncrude has a relationship with Keyano College. Is there a focus there with drawing first nations into those programs?

Others might want to comment as well on relationships with the institutions.

[Kara Flynn]

Syncrude has a strong relationship with our local community college, Keyano College. In fact I'm the chair of the board of governors. Suncor and Shell Canada also have representatives on the board of directors. We're also active in advisory services to curriculum development through all of the programs the college offers.

[Ian Anderson]

I can confirm that Kinder Morgan and Trans Mountain are active with several institutions, in British Columbia in particular, to develop programs for specific trades in advance of the massive construction we plan to undertake in 2016-17. These are programs for welders, machinists, mechanics, equipment operators, etc.

Thompson Rivers and UBC are both institutions that we're working with right now.

[Russel Mercredi]

Cameco is very involved with the local regional college, Northlands College. We provide curriculum development. We participate in program selections that have a high chance to lead to employment in our industry. We donate the equipment that's used at our operations to their training programs so that students are learning what they will use once they become employed and so forth.

Pretty much on a daily basis we're involved with the local regional college.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you.

We'll go to Mr. Shory from the Conservative Party, for five minutes.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Thank you to the witnesses for taking the time to help this committee better understand how we can ensure an increase in opportunities for aboriginal people in the workforce.

I will be looking for comments from Ms. Flynn as well. I am from Calgary, and I know that Syncrude is one of the largest private sector employers in Alberta. Syncrude has also contributed more than $14 billion through royalty payments and federal and provincial taxes.

Being the largest industrial employer of aboriginal people in Canada, with 8% of its employee force from aboriginal communities, I'd like you to give the committee an example of the training program Syncrude offers currently.

[Kara Flynn]

Thank you, Mr. Shory. It's nice to see you.

Cameco would be the largest overall employer of aboriginal people in the country from an industrial perspective. Syncrude is among one of the other leaders behind them, aspiring to achieve the levels that they have, which are truly impressive.

From a training perspective, we have our own in-house apprenticeship support programs that we put our employees through. We also rely heavily on our local community college, Keyano, as well as NAIT, the Northern Alberta Institute of Technology, in Edmonton. We provide all support for funds and training for our employees to go through any type of trade and technical employment.

It's also important to note that we actually have an employees' children's scholarship program, more than $2,000 per year per child of an employee for pursuing post-secondary education. We consider trades and technology programs to be part of that. We provide funding for our existing workforce as well as for the children of our employees to pursue trades. We invest heavily in programs for Keyano and NAIT to support in-house trades training in key areas where we are short.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Thank you.

All Canadian employers, Ms. Flynn, have different practices when it comes to hiring. How does Syncrude attract and retain aboriginals within its workforce? Furthermore, what impediments are there currently to hiring aboriginals in your workforce?

[Kara Flynn]

Our dedicated aboriginal recruiter is a key part of that, particularly in the local community. From a broader perspective we are active with the Aboriginal Human Resource Council, which is a sector council in Canada that links up through programs like Inclusion Works. It provides us an outlet to more professional and technical prospective aboriginal employees.

The real key is trying to make sure that all aboriginal people have the potential and the ability to pursue advanced education so that they can come work for us, and to make sure that when they do, we have a workforce that is truly respectful of their culture. That includes things like policies that respect the need for greater amounts of leave during a death of someone in the community, for example, which is unique to aboriginal culture. We are aware of who's out there, trying to grow that pool, and then making sure that we have an inclusive workforce when they arrive.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Thank you.

Could you all make a quick comment on what you think is the best way to improve labour market outcomes for aboriginals?

Go ahead, Mr. Anderson.

[Ian Anderson]

I touched on that earlier.

If I had to single out one thing that I think could provide the most value, it's continuing to have the very tight connection between industry needs and training programs available. We believe our job is to identify what the needs of the industry are looking forward, not just today, but looking forward, identifying where the gaps are, where the skills needs are, both regionally as well as nationally, and then fitting those needs into programs that would be government and industry assisted. That connection needs to remain tight. We can't be on two different agendas, if you like.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Madame Groguhé from the NDP.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for providing us with this information.

My question is addressed to all of you.

The importance of facilitating the training of aboriginal people has been highlighted, among other things to encourage the development of the businesses on these sites.

Could you describe any particular challenges you have experienced in retaining aboriginal employees who are trained and have been hired by your companies?

[Ian Anderson]

I can start if you'd like.

We haven't experienced any material retention problems. I think we recognize proximity and transportation challenges. We try to tailor the employment opportunity as locally as we can. As you can appreciate, we have a long linear infrastructure. Our footprint is very spread out, so finding the match is very important. We take that part very seriously. As the others would, we also recognize unique cultural and heritage needs and important aspects of the community, and how those may affect employment.

I think the last piece is making sure that the fit is right. In other words, we can derive our own benefits and benefits to the community by both employment and contracting. Sometimes a contracting relationship is more suitable for a circumstance than a pure employment relationship. The other advantage to that is that it gives that individual or that small company the opportunity to pursue other avenues, not just with me but with other businesses.