Human Resources Committee on May 23rd, 2018

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Good afternoon, everybody. We're going to get started right away. We have some bells that are going to be ringing fairly soon, so without any preamble, today we are considering, pursuant to Standing Order 81(4), main estimates 2018-19, vote 1 under Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, vote 1 under Canadian Centre for Occupational Health and Safety, and votes 1 and 5 under Department of Employment and Social Development, referred to the committee on Monday, April 16, 2018.

We're very pleased to have with us today the Honourable Jean-Yves Duclos, Minister of Families, Children and Social Development; the Honourable Kirsty Duncan, Minister of Science and Minister of Sport and Persons with Disabilities; and the Honourable Patty Hajdu, Minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Labour.

Thank you very much. I don't know if you've rock-paper-scissored to determine who is going to go first.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

As you know, we started the meeting late because the government is muzzling the opposition in the House of Commons.

I'd like to say how glad I am that the three ministers before us today submitted their presentations to the committee in writing.

As you know, more votes will be taking place in the House in about an hour, so I propose that we move directly into questions. We can read the ministers' presentations afterwards.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

It's a little unusual. I think I'd like to stick with the normal way of doing things, if that's okay.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

Could I speak to the point of order?

Thank you, Chair. I'm not actually—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

I'm going to have to interrupt here because this is actually not a point of order and we do have limited time. I would like to now turn the floor over to—

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

I have a point of order.

Anything that has to do with the Standing Orders and procedure and the schedule is a point of order. I would move that we begin—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

You can't move a motion at this point. I'm sorry.

Ms. Sansoucy.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

If I understand correctly, Mr. Chair, we won't be voting on the motion. I supported the motion and had questions ready to go.

Having the ministers here gives us the opportunity to have a more in-depth discussion. Personally, I agree with the idea of moving right into the question and answer portion of the meeting.

What you're telling us, Mr. Chair, is that we are going to start with the ministers' presentations. Is that correct?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

That's correct. We're going to follow the same standard that we normally would.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

In that case, I'm going to finish—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

We will be coming back after votes, I believe. There will be time for questions.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

In that case, I'm going to use my time, Mr. Chair, to tell you that I'd now like to discuss the motion for which I gave notice last week. For the benefit of—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Excuse me. Sorry.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

She has the floor.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

No. It was on a point of order that wasn't a point of order.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

For the benefit of the ministers here today, I will read the motion:

That the committee undertakes a study for at least 6 sittings on the Employment Insurance sickness benefits program to examine especially, but not exclusively a. if the programme meets the real needs of the claimants; b. the impact of the length of the benefits on the claimants and on their recovery; c. the program accessibility; d. the population affected by this program and their characteristics; and hear, not limited to this list, witnesses from the health sector, former claimants or groups representing them, the Minister of Families, Children and Social Development; and that it report on its conclusions to the House.

Having the ministers here today makes this a good time to discuss the motion.

I would like to continue the debate. This is an important motion. This is a study the committee should undertake, and we should vote to go ahead with the study. The Minister, himself, said publicly that the issue was important and even committed to looking into it in the year following the interview he did with Radio-Canada television. Since that year is up, however, I think it's very important that we discuss this motion and move forward with the study.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you. On the order here, I have Mark, then Mona, and then Steven.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

Thank you, Chair. I appreciate the motion. We do have the minister here. I think it's very appropriate that we deal with this now. I'm disappointed that we didn't go straight to questions, but this is a way of dealing with it, a very important issue that my colleague has raised. I think the motion is appropriate and if we deal with it now, then we'll have an opportunity as a committee to give direction to the minister that this is what we'll be doing.

I'm also concerned that this issue is not a new issue. This is an issue that has been brought by my colleague before, and other members of Parliament, and the government has promised in the past that it would deal with this, and it hasn't.

That's why we have this before us today.

We are here today entertaining a motion like this because the government has moved a motion to stop debate in the House, and also to cause a vote where we have to be going back and forth. There's a vote to return to orders of the day, which took away a half hour of this meeting, and that first half hour would have been an opportunity when the ministers would have spoken.

The government moved that, and members of this committee—the government members—actually supported that in the House, so we started this meeting a half hour late. So for us to deal with this motion now, I think, is a necessity, and—

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Chair, what's the relevancy here?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Are you getting to the end here? Thank you.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

The relevance is that this should have been dealt with by the government, and my concern is that if I don't speak to this, the next action.... This is what the government has done before: Liberal members move that the debate now be adjourned.

If that is what the government members move, they have stopped debate in the House. They've restricted our time to ask the ministers questions, the three ministers here, and my hope is that what I'm expecting isn't going to happen, that the government members will actually permit debate on this, will respect members of the opposition. We have official opposition members—Conservative members—and an NDP member, and I hope the government members will respect the members who want to ask questions, and not take away our time through procedure. This meeting is televised, Chair, and so the public can see what's happening.

Whether the government is going to be fair and listen, or whether the government is going to abuse our rights—and our rights are the rights, Chair, to represent our community and what we're hearing from our constituents.

Canadians are not happy with what's happening, so I encourage members...and I'm going to be giving up my time now, so that a Liberal member will have a chance to speak, and I surely hope that I'm wrong. I hope they will not move a motion to end debate, as they have in the past.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you, Mr. Warawa.

I would remind all of us that we are televised, and we are actually here to hear from the ministers, and not necessarily to deal with a particular motion that we agree has merit, but there's a proper time and place.

Mona Fortier, go ahead please.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I will quickly move the motion to adjourn the debate. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

All those in favour of adjourning—

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

I'd like a recorded division.