Human Resources Committee on June 6th, 2018

[Ramesh Sangha, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for coming to the committee.

Regarding families and children, our government announced the creation of child benefits. The child benefit was given to Canadians in need of it, putting money into the pockets of Canadians tax free. Ninety per cent of Canadians are getting the benefit, and Minister, you were in my riding in Brampton last year, and you saw the people. They were excited. All over Canada people are excited regarding the Canada child benefit.

Last October, Finance Minister Morneau announced that child benefits will be indexed. That means when the cost of living goes higher, the Canada child benefit will be increased. I would like you to explain whether that plan is still in existence, and if so, the effect of indexing on middle-class people.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Thank you, Ramesh, and thank you for mentioning the great time I had with you in Brampton, talking to middle-class and lower-income families who struggle every day when it comes to addressing the time pressures they have going to work and looking after their children and their education, but also making ends meet in an economy where prices increase.

On July 19, 2018, we'll celebrate a great anniversary, the second year of the Canada child benefit. The Canada child benefit is the most significant social policy innovation in a generation. It's changing the nature of this country. It's helping nine families out of 10 feed their families and help their children grow and learn.

That makes a huge difference when it comes to child poverty. Forty per cent of children living in poverty before 2016 are now being lifted out of poverty because of the Canada child benefit, and I know in Brampton it means a lot to all the middle-class and lower-income families for whom you work so hard every day, Ramesh. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

You're sharing. You have about two minutes and 20 seconds left.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

I'll jump right back in.

During the consultations we held for the national housing strategy, we heard certain things from people on the ground about mobility and subsidized pricing for staying in an apartment. We heard it was difficult for people to take that with them, and that prevented a lot of people from getting a job.

Could you tell us a little more about that, please?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Thank you again, Dan, for being sensitive to the difficulties that Canadians have to pay their rent, which means they have to choose between living in a safe and affordable place and living in a place that is not conducive to good welfare and good development for themselves and their children.

In 2020 we'll launch the first-ever Canada housing benefit. That's going to help 300,000 families live in a home that is safe and affordable and to look after their children. That's going to give, on average, $2,500 per family per home, to make sure that we all have a reasonable and fair chance and a real chance to live decently in a proper home. For the first time ever, the federal government will help provinces and territories prevent homelessness and guarantee every family a safe and affordable home.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

I know I don't probably have much time, but when I was doing these consultations as well, these are the things that we heard from the people on the ground, who work with the public who face these challenges. I'm proud we were able to put together these types of programs that are going to have a significant impact on the lives of low-income Canadians. I thank you for all the work you've done.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Warawa.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister.

I noticed that you congratulated all the Liberal members for their hard work, but Minister, I want to assure you that all members of this committee are working hard for Canadians. Madame Sansoucy—

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Oh, thank you.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

I want to thank her for her hard work, and also Mr. Blaney, and I am working hard too, sir.

The Auditor General has also been working very hard for Canada, and he made a startling statement that the “measure of success” from this Liberal government has been “the amount of money spent, rather than improved outcomes”, and I'm very concerned when we have the Auditor General saying that.

Mr. Blaney brought up some issues about the Canadian summer jobs program being used to fund anti-Semitic and hate activities. Your response was about substantive funding to our youth. That sounds like what the Auditor General is saying. Outcomes are more important, not how much money. You said there was more money to develop their skills, and important job opportunities. I would suggest, Minister, that having funding....

This the first year that the Canada summer jobs program has given opportunity with conditions. The applicants for this funding for Canada summer jobs have to attest that they agree with the government's core values. Their core values have to be the government's core values.

The government owns this. When money is being used for anti-Semitic hate purposes or funding terrorism, it is very concerning. The government just announced last week that it has spent $4.5 billion to buy the Kinder Morgan pipeline, after creating an environment of chaos, and through Canada summer jobs it is actually funding Dogwood. The Canada summer jobs program announcement in that application was to protest the Kinder Morgan pipeline. I'm very concerned that taxpayers' money is being used in this way.

A law professor at the University of Saskatchewan, Jason MacLean, said of the wording of the new core values test, “Notwithstanding the Prime Minister's backtracking, the language to me is overbroad.” He said that the declaration would probably not survive a charter challenge “because it infringes on the fundamental right of freedom of religion and conscience in a way that is not justifiable.” That was Jason MacLean.

John Ibbitson, with The Globe and Mail, wrote:

Thousands of student summer-job grants, along with a brand-new community-service program, have been rendered unavailable to organizations and people of faith, thanks to an obnoxious new Liberal values oath.

Andrew Bennett, former ambassador for religious freedoms in Canada, said the Trudeau government is displaying “totalitarian” tendencies with its controversial changes to the student summer jobs program.

John Ivison of the National Post said that Scott Simms, the popular Newfoundland MP, was removed from his job as chair of fisheries, losing a salary bonus of $1,100, because he voted in favour of a Conservative motion. What was that motion? The motion was:

That, in the opinion of the House, organizations that engage in non-political non-activist work, such as feeding the homeless, helping refugees, and giving kids an opportunity to go to camp, should be able to access Canada Summer Jobs funding regardless of their private convictions and regardless of whether or not they choose to sign the application attestation.

Minister, I'm very concerned that the Auditor General is saying that spending money doesn't mean results and that the restrictive opportunities the government is giving are not in the interest of Canada.

Minister, why did you vote against a motion that was fair, that said let's make it non-partisan, let's make it non-political, let's focus on results, and results that are good for Canadian youth so that they can get a job and have a great experience? Minister, why did you vote against that fair motion in the House?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Mark, let me start with two apologies.

The first apology is that indeed I didn't recognize the hard work that you, Steven, and Rosemarie do every day in the House and in your constituencies. Of course, I mentioned Brigitte earlier, and I'll just say it again. We're delighted to have you in the House. You make our lives more lively and you make the work of the government better, because with a good opposition—and I'm not saying you're good every day—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

—we have a better government.

The second apology is that I should have mentioned indeed that the number of student jobs is 70,000. You talked about outcomes. It's 70,000 young Canadians who now have a job. It's double the number there was before 2016. Thank you for asking me about this, because 70,000 versus 35,000 is indeed a good indication of the significantly greater outcomes we're having with the current Canada summer jobs program.

Coming to the other aspects, as you know, it's very important for that project to ensure that the jobs being done and the mandates being fulfilled are in support of, and not in contradiction to, the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. That's why we expect all applications to meet those requirements, that they are in accordance with the fact that not the belief or the opinion but the actual job being done is in accordance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. If that is not the case and if there is misleading information provided to the government, that will be reviewed and eventually perhaps reversed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much, Minister.

The final word goes to Madam Sansoucy.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We're going to continue our discussion, minister.

You said there were inaccuracies in my preamble. However, I view my role as that of a spokesperson. I am the spokesperson for those who suffer the consequences when measures are not taken.

Let's look at the facts, minister. Every year, FADOC prepares an insert in our local weekly. This year, my contribution to it was to write a column on the guaranteed income supplement. However, the fact is that many people called our riding office after my column was published. Seniors and family caregivers realized as they read the column that they or their caregivers who were entitled to the guaranteed income supplement were not receiving it. We helped them apply for it.

The other fact is that Marie-Hélène Dubé gathered 600,000 signatures from people who were concerned about the sickness benefits situation. The number of cancer cases is much higher than it used to be. The labour market situation is different. We must adapt our laws to the new labour market realities. That leads me to my next question, minister.

We're going to talk about the black hole. I know you're going to talk about the training program. I know you're going to tell me about what's happening in New Brunswick, where workers have access to benefits. However, workers are concerned about next winter because the measure you included in the last budget doesn't resolve the black hole situation. In fact, some people are concerned because their benefits are being extended, but they don't even know whether they will have accumulated enough hours to qualify for employment insurance next season. That's not including workers from Est-du-Québec who were told by their local employment centre that the training you mentioned didn't exist.

I don't know what to tell those workers who are still in the black hole. Furthermore, our committee has to examine the employment insurance pieces one at a time. That poses a problem when we establish our schedule because the House has asked us to look at benefits for parents who have lost a child. Personally, I'm asking the committee to study the situation regarding sick persons. However, we would not be talking about the black hole if a genuine in-depth reform of the employment insurance program was under way to respond to the new labour market realities, whether it be unstable or seasonal employment, which is really widespread in certain regions.

So I ask you my question once again: when will the employment insurance reform take place?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

That's an excellent question, and I'm going to answer it by convincing you—but I think you're already convinced—of our vision for the employment insurance program and by going back to what we did at the outset.

At the outset, we reversed the discriminatory measures that had been applied against women and young people by Mr. Harper's Conservative government. We made a commitment to do it, and we did it quickly.

Approximately 50,000 unemployed workers received more respectful treatment after those discriminatory measures were reversed. Then we shortened the qualifying period from two weeks to one, which benefited 1.8 million Canadian unemployed workers, many of whom were engaged in seasonal work. In the last budget, we also offered more flexibility for workers in more difficult health and income situations who needed sickness benefits. That increased flexibility will therefore benefit several tens of thousands of those families that are in difficulty.

As for the black hole—as you may have noticed—for the first time in Canadian government history, specific funding to support our seasonal workers was included in budget 2018. That funding amounted to $10 million in very short-term assistance. Agreements have been signed with all the provinces concerned. The beneficial impact of those agreements can be seen and observed in our communities. For the next two years, $230 million has been allocated to solve this problem over the long term, although the method for doing so remains to be determined. This is a two-year commitment to the communities, workers, employers, and provinces and territories so that we can seriously focus together on how we will solve the black hole problem, as the prime minister has undertaken to do and as we have clearly demonstrated by including this $230 million item in budget 2018.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Minister, my question concerned the calculation of the unemployment rate.

I represent a riding that is experiencing full employment. Despite that fact, some workers hold seasonal employment in the agri-food sector, for example. The owner of a lawn maintenance business recently told me he had had to lend money to his employees. The employer spoke to me about the black hole his employees were in. He isn't interested in seeing his employees go to work in the plant next door, which is experiencing a labour shortage. He trained them and wants them to be available when the season starts. That's the labour market reality I'm talking about.

In a single region, you have, on the one hand, a situation of full employment and, on the other hand, seasonal workers and young people who move from job to job and are experiencing unstable employment.

We have to rethink the way the employment insurance program is currently designed. You're telling us you'll be announcing a reform, but when will that reform take place?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

Sorry, we're well past the time.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

The question has been asked.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

I do have to respect the minister's time. He does actually need to be on the move right now, but I wanted to thank him for coming back.

I ask our colleagues to stay put as the minister leaves. We're going to be bring back in the officials around Bill C-62.

While they're doing that, it's optional, but we can actually vote now on estimates to report back to the House. If we choose not to do that—

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

I believe we can suspend for two minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

We don't have to. I'm just saying that we can go straight into the vote, or if we don't want to vote, that's fine as well.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Oh, it's for the main estimates.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Yes, it's the main estimates.

CANADA MORTGAGE AND HOUSING CORPORATION

Vote 1—– Reimbursement under the provisions of the National Housing Act and the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation Act...........$2,427,435,894

(Vote 1 agreed to on division)

CANADIAN CENTRE FOR OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH AND SAFETY

Vote 1—Program expenditures..........$4,111,237

(Vote 1 agreed to on division)

DEPARTMENT OF EMPLOYMENT AND SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT

Vote 1—Operating expenditures..........$676,783,319

Vote 5—Grants and contributions..........$2,439,760,218

(Votes 1 and 5 agreed to on division)

Shall I report the votes on the main estimates 2018-19 to the House?

[An hon. member]

Agreed.