Human Resources Committee on Feb. 24th, 2016

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

We are missing two members of the committee, but we have a quorum. I would like to suggest that in the interests of time we move forward.

By way of a quick update, we have sent out invitations to the three ministers who report to this committee. We know that those invitations have been received. Word is that we're working diligently to get dates when the ministers are available. I have kind of an update but not the one we want. As soon as we have a date, we will update our schedule and make sure that we adjust it in light of having the ministers here to speak.

We have a bit of housekeeping. We have, myself included, some people on this committee who are new to Ottawa. I have some procedural notes, as I said, a bit of housekeeping. As a friendly reminder to all members, please direct comments to the chair rather than to one another. Members should wait to be recognized by the chair before speaking. During debate or questions and comments, the clerk will add the names of the members who would like to speak to a list which will be to my immediate right. If I don't see you, usually my fantastic clerk will. Members can speak in the language of their choice since, of course, we have simultaneous interpretation. My thanks to the folks who provide this great service.

I expect today's meeting is going to go fairly quickly. We had a very good subcommittee meeting on Monday. I was pleased with the end result. We had a good debate with regard to the motions presented at that committee. Although many of us in the room were surprised at the outcome, I think it was the best outcome we could have seen. It really does show that we are doing our best to be not just cordial but inclusive and to make sure that everybody's voice matters.

I would ask the clerk to distribute copies of the report.

I'm going to back up for a second. I just received an update. We have confirmation on a date, and that will be April 11. We have confirmation from all three ministers that they will be present on that date to speak to their mandate letters as they pertain to this committee.

I think it's good news that we have that confirmation.

Mr. Warawa.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

For clarification, Chair, you said April 11.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

April 11, yes.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

And you said all three ministers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Correct.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

When we discussed the invitation, we discussed the normal format, which was that the minister would be here for an hour, followed by an hour for department officials to answer any additional questions. My understanding, then, was that we would be dealing with three different dates for three different ministers.

Is there a reason that the ministers cannot come on different dates? Is there overlap? Are there efficiencies, lack of availability? Why are they all coming on the same day?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

To be honest, that's the date that....

I don't think the invitation—we can pull it up here—specified that type of layout. That was maybe an issue with the invitation, but the invitation that went out didn't specifically identify them coming on different days.

I'm not going to suggest that I speak for their rationale or why they coordinated to do it on the same day, but that's the response that I have.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

Thank you. That's fine.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Just taking my chair hat off for a moment, if I can, we do have an incredibly busy agenda that we're about to embark on. I personally think that this makes a little more sense for what you were saying in terms of the efficiency aspect of it.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

Thank you.

If I could speak to that, I appreciate all members and ministers making themselves available, and if the committee thought there was a specific minister that we needed to invite back, we have that option. However, as a first go-round to provide an overview, I think this will do fine.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Fantastic.

Ms. Ashton.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Chair, I actually want to express concern about that arrangement. I mean, we're talking about three ministers. Two in particular are in charge of significant departments, significant budgets, and their mandate letters do not overlap.

I've never heard of ministers coming in to do a briefing at the beginning of the session en masse. I've certainly heard of that in the case of legislation, but as an opening, a beginning to a relationship as well, I personally find it problematic.

I certainly echo the idea put forward by my colleague. I mean, we'd like to hear them, but I don't find that's a reflection of the scope of their work and our work as a committee.

I certainly hope that we're not getting off on a rocky start, where we will actually.... What it essentially means is a very limited opportunity to get into what exactly these ministers' plans are beyond the mandate letter.

Whether it's EI or housing or disabilities, whatever it might be, the list of the issues that these ministers cover is so extensive that I feel we're seeing a dangerous precedent being set here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

I would like comment on that. The invitation that was sent specifically asked the ministers to speak to their mandate letters.

Again, I'm not speaking for the ministers in any way, shape, or form. However, to your comment about speaking beyond their mandate letters, I would agree that a longer session would be needed, but that's not what was asked of them in this invitation.

Mr. Zimmer.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

I concur with our colleagues, and that is just from being here before. The typical way it's done is that the minister has an hour. We have an hour to question the minister directly, and then there's an hour for department officials following that hour. If there are any questions left unanswered, hopefully they can fill in some gaps.

The question I would have is whether it's for the entire two hours that all three ministers are speaking, or is it just three ministers for one hour.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

I literally was just given a notice saying April 11 is the day, because I brought it up. I don't have any of those details at this time. We can find that out.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Is there a way to find out and get some clarity from whomever gave you what you have today? I just would say that if all three ministers are going to speak in that same one hour, that's going to be more than insufficient time. This department handles a third of the budget, right? I would suggest that we have them for longer, but again I'm seeking clarity on this. Is it for two hours?

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

We just found out ourselves that the minister was coming, so this is actually news to us as well. I would like to also say that during the invitation, there was not a process that was laid out, to my knowledge. I don't recall.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Can I speak to that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Yes.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Just to be clear, if you check, if there were minutes taken, there was discussion about the way ministers present to committee. There was a discussion of an hour to present and an hour for officials. That will be in the minutes; I know it was there. I guess maybe that old word “assume” comes and bites us you know where; we assumed that this would have been taken forward as the standard and the norm.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

I can speak for the invitation itself, and that was not in the invitation. In terms of the minutes, we can look it up, but in terms of the invitation itself, it wasn't there.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

I have a suggestion, short of having clarity. I would like to make a request that we have them each for their own day, for an hour to present, and then have another hour for the officials to present, in lieu of having a clearer picture of what the plan actually is.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Sure, okay.

Ms. Ashton.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

I support that proposal. I'm looking at other committees. I don't know of any other committees that have the scope that we have and have more than one minister coming for one hour. I think we've discussed the need to set the right tone here, and that involves giving each minister the opportunity to speak to us in full and having the support of their officials. That is usually what has taken place, so I certainly hope this is the case here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Mr. Warawa.