Evidence of meeting #22 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was seniors.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Filomena Tassi Liberal Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON
Would others like to comment?
Another area I'd like to address is child care. I know it is a financial burden for Canadian families, and a number of people are looking for spaces. Can we address how significant a role national child care plays in addressing child poverty in Canada? Is there anyone who can address that?
Director General, Seniors and Pensions Policy Secretariat, Income Security and Social Development Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
I'm not able to, but if there's a specific question, I could take that back and we could provide a written response.
Liberal
Filomena Tassi Liberal Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON
Perhaps I mean costing, what the cost would be. If you have analysis of spaces that are required and the cost for those spaces, that would be appreciated.
As witnesses you bring great experience this morning. Here's just a general question I would have each of you comment on. What have been the shortfalls that you've seen in attempting to address poverty reduction in the past, the lessons, and the direction that you could give us, moving forward, through your own experiences and the successes you've witnessed?
Mr. Heisz, do you want to begin?
Assistant Director, Income Statistics Division, Statistics Canada
Thank you. I think your question refers to particular policy instruments that have been put in place. I'm afraid I'll have to leave that to my colleagues here to answer those.
Liberal
Filomena Tassi Liberal Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON
From a statistics point of view, is there anything you've seen, a policy that has been implemented that the statistics have shown has generated a very positive effect with respect to poverty reduction?
Assistant Director, Income Statistics Division, Statistics Canada
Certainly it's a well-known and well-accepted fact that benefits to seniors have done a remarkable job over the last 30 years in reducing low income among that group.
Liberal
Filomena Tassi Liberal Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON
Can you comment specifically on the age reduction for entitlement from 67 to 65?
Assistant Director, Income Statistics Division, Statistics Canada
No, I don't have any specific comments on that.
Director General, Seniors and Pensions Policy Secretariat, Income Security and Social Development Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
In terms of the seniors' story, if you measure with LICO, there's a demonstrable positive impact. In 1976, 29% of seniors lived below the LICO. In 2014, it was 3.9%, so that's a very dramatic improvement in the income levels of Canadian seniors over time.
Liberal
Filomena Tassi Liberal Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON
What specific initiatives do you attribute that to?
Director General, Seniors and Pensions Policy Secretariat, Income Security and Social Development Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
Old age security and guaranteed income supplement are significant contributors to that.
Liberal
Filomena Tassi Liberal Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON
Okay, and is there anything else besides those two things?
Director General, Seniors and Pensions Policy Secretariat, Income Security and Social Development Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
Those would be, I would say, the biggest influences. CPP also helps, but I think for low-income seniors the GIS, guaranteed income supplement, which has been increased periodically over the years, has had a significant impact on poverty levels, low-income levels.
Liberal
Filomena Tassi Liberal Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON
With respect to the distribution of income that is given to seniors, I've had comments made to me that perhaps we could do a better job at giving more to seniors who need more and less to seniors who are not as needy, with respect to the OAS. Do you have any comments on that?
Director General, Seniors and Pensions Policy Secretariat, Income Security and Social Development Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
We ask ourselves the same question all the time. I think one of the biggest challenges in income security programs is trying to determine how best to help populations, whether you target or whether you go with universal programs. Right now we have a combination of a quasi-universal old age security program and a targeted guaranteed income supplement, with a further targeted top-up to the guaranteed income supplement for the lowest incomes. I think that remains a challenge, though. We look at it on a case-by-case basis with different programs, depending upon the data and the circumstances at the time.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bryan May
Thank you very much.
Before I forget, Mr. Heisz, in a previous question, you had mentioned a number—I believe you referred to it as a basket—of different types of statistics that are used to measure poverty. Is there any way you can send to the committee some details on those different measures?
Assistant Director, Income Statistics Division, Statistics Canada
Yes, we can supply details.
Liberal
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thanks to an excellent roster of witnesses. I had a chance to work with your departments in the past, and I have always been very impressed with the quality of leadership we have in our public service.
I'd like to start with a follow-up question to my colleague's earlier query. He asked Statistics Canada if it had done any study on the impact of a $50 per tonne carbon tax on the poverty rate. Statistics Canada indicated that it had not done such a study. Has Employment and Social Development Canada done such a study?
Director General, Seniors and Pensions Policy Secretariat, Income Security and Social Development Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
I'm sorry, could you repeat your question?
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
Has the social development department done any study on the impact on the poverty rate of a $50 per tonne carbon tax?
Director General, Seniors and Pensions Policy Secretariat, Income Security and Social Development Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
Not that I'm aware of.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
Two of the measurements that you've pointed to in the deck you provided, Mr. Heisz, measure the incomes of people versus the cost of basic necessities. I refer to the market basket measurement, which takes a whole basket of goods that are required to be part of a society. LICO, low-income cut-off, is based on the 1992 share of income that was required for some basic necessities at that time.
We know that taxes on carbon raise disproportionately the prices of basic necessities—fuel, heat, electricity, food. We also know that low-income people have to spend disproportionately large amounts of money on those basic necessities. When those prices go up, is it not logical to assume that poverty rates go up with them?
Assistant Director, Income Statistics Division, Statistics Canada
I guess in my view, one can think of this from an accounting perspective, and the accounting perspective in my mind would be that, taking the market basket measure, for example, if anything drove up the prices of goods that were represented in the market basket measure from one year to the next, then that would raise the threshold.