Human Resources Committee on Nov. 22nd, 2016

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Given that small businesses are disproportionately the first employers of low-income people and young people, would you agree that this information is bad news particularly for the most vulnerable members of our workforce?

[Monique Moreau]

It's bad news for anyone seeking a job at this stage in the game. We are quite concerned about this. As you can see, it happens very rarely on our chart in the years of information that we've been collecting. This month's “Barometer”, the November “Barometer”, will be coming out on Thursday. I can't scoop the organization, but it's not an aberration, which is a concern for us. This time of year, when typically there is seasonal hiring, we are not really sure what is causing business owners to pull back. There is some uncertainty in the economy, in things that are impacting their business planning right now, that is maybe causing them to say, “I'm not going to take this step right now.”

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Did you say that the next one comes out on Thursday?

[Monique Moreau]

That's correct, for this month.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Okay.

When there are new marginal costs to hiring, increased payroll taxes being the most obvious example, is it fair to say that the most precarious employee in the workplace, the one, for example, who is last to be hired or whose attachment to the workplace is the weakest, is the one most likely to lose his or her job?

[Monique Moreau]

I suppose you could draw that conclusion. During the recession, we did a study of our members which showed that they were the first to hire and the last to fire. Often, they would forgo salaries themselves in their efforts to keep their employees during a time of economic instability. We know that small business owners do what they can to keep their employees, largely because of the investment they make in hiring. It is expensive to hire and train someone, so they do whatever they can to keep them until they absolutely can't.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you. That's the time, Pierre.

It's over to Monsieur Robillard, for six minutes.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Good morning, everybody.

My question is for Ms. Flanagan.

In the past, the parents of today's students were given the opportunity to take courses in manual trades, such as carpentry.

At this time, do you think encouraging youth to learn about science and new technologies will help give them tangible skills so that they can more easily find employment and avoid poverty?

[Jennifer Flanagan]

Absolutely. When youth are engaged in science and technology programming that is relevant to their lives, and when they actually have an experiential learning opportunity, they are developing skills beyond just hard science and technology skills. Those skills include what is called 21st century skills—creativity, problem-solving, collaboration, and learning from failure, which is a hot topic of conversation among the business community as a skill that is lacking in youth today. Engaging in science and technology does build those skills, which are relevant to many different areas for future success.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Thank you.

What Actua programs are the most successful and why?

[Jennifer Flanagan]

We offer a very wide range of programming, from a three-hour school workshop to a 40-hour to 60-hour camp or a club. Obviously, the longer we have youth engaged and the more regularly we have them engaged, the deeper the impact.

I'll give you an example from our indigenous programs. We deliver programming in Rankin Inlet, Nunavut, and we have for years. We see youth in their classrooms in the spring and in the fall. Then we come back in the summer and engage them for 40 hours of programming. Forty hours, especially in Rankin Inlet, would be way more science and math content than they would receive in an entire year in school. In that period of time, we're also working alongside the community to connect the science and technology content that we're teaching to what's happening culturally in the community and to what's important for those youth.

Obviously, the longer and more frequently we can have them engaged, the better.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

How much time do I still have?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

You have three minutes, sir.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Okay. I'll share my time with Ms. Tassi.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Ms. Tassi.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Thank you all for your submissions and input today.

My questions are for Ms. Hare. You work in a company that offers opportunities to individuals and families living on low incomes, and helps them pursue self-employment and learn money management skills. It also offers skills training for new Canadians and indigenous peoples.

There are two parts to the question. The first is, what do you believe is the most significant cause of poverty for those individuals with whom you deal?

Second, thank you for your recommendations. I just want to get more specific information with respect to three areas. One is jobs training. You're saying that there's currently not enough. What specific recommendations can you make? Two is the asset-building programs. Do we need more of them, or do we need more money in the programs that exist? Three is the education and training with respect to literacy. Does more need to be made available; that is, can we do better, or do we need to just offer more of what's already out there to more people?

[Courtney Hare]

Thank you for your questions.

I'll first address the one related to job training for unemployed and vulnerable Canadians. The issue is, primarily, an allocation of funding that has happened. Funding has moved away from training of vulnerable or barriered individuals to the upskilling of people who are currently employed. It's a structural issue, not necessarily an issue with the amount of funding. Our key recommendation is to ensure, when renegotiating the labour market agreements with the provinces, that that funding is directed to those who need it the most: those who are the most detached from the labour market and who experience the most barriers to employment.

The second question was about matched savings programs, and whether additional funding was needed or just the growth of the existence of those programs. It can be both. I'd like to congratulate the Government of Canada on its recent investment in financial empowerment programming across Canada through Prosper Canada.

Prosper Canada has a regional financial empowerment champions project. There will be 10 municipalities across Canada funded to do this work. It's a replication and a unique adaptation of a model that's worked in dozens of cities across the U.S. Now it's being applied in Canada. Calgary and Edmonton are two cities included in this project. We at Momentum commend the government for further investing in financial empowerment, and we look forward to seeing the results of this project grow, hopefully, and scale the impact beyond that.

Is there an additional question that I didn't answer?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

If so, we'll have to come back to it. We're out of time, I'm afraid.

Next we have Ms. Ashton.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you to all of our witnesses today, in person and by video conference, for your presentations.

I'll pick up on the theme of working with indigenous communities, and say that I really appreciated the information you shared with us, Ms. Flanagan and you, as well, Ms. Levine.

Obviously in this committee we're looking at bringing forward a range of recommendations. You've touched on a number of key recommendations with respect to training and financial literacy which are critical. However, oftentimes in recognizing the barriers that indigenous communities face, we can rewind right to the beginning and look at some barriers, particularly in terms of access to an adequate education, even at the basic level of K to 12.

Being from Manitoba, like you, Ms. Levine, I work with a number of first nations. Let's face it; we know that, particularly education, whether it's K-to-12 education or even post-secondary, is underfunded when you compare children on reserve to off reserve. We know of the devastating impacts of the 2% cap and what that has meant for access to a quality education for kids on reserve.

When we're talking about poverty alleviation, I'm wondering if perhaps you could both speak to how important it is to adequately fund first nations education, whether K to 12 or post-secondary, so that we can continue these conversations beyond that point as well.

Perhaps we could start with you, Ms. Flanagan, and then Ms. Levine.

[Jennifer Flanagan]

I don't think the importance of that could be overstated.

I personally have had the opportunity to visit dozens of communities every year and have seen first-hand the impact of underfunded schools. We hear from parents all the time, the challenges they face in deciding where to send their child. Do they send their child to a first nations school that is closest to them that is underfunded and where they won't get the same kind of quality education, or do they send them away where they could potentially or most likely face systemic racism issues?

It's a significant issue. Part of the work we do in schools is to support—there are many excellent schools, off reserve and on reserve—the work they do, by enhancing opportunities for youth, and also continuing that learning outside of school hours, in the summertime, after school. The responsiveness to that is incredible. Communities want these types of learning experiences.

I get that question all the time: “Science and Technology? Don't we need to start with the basics in some of these communities?” Not at all. There's no reason that science and technology could not be a phenomenal pathway for them to actually be motivated to stay in school. So there's that issue as well.

There's the issue of the quality, and then there's the issue of actually keeping them in school, regardless of what the quality is.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you for sharing that.

Ms. Levine, going back to the recommendations, do you have any thoughts on the need for the federal government to invest in first nations education, K to 12, as well as post-secondary, and address the underfunding?

[Danielle Levine]

I think I can speak most to the post-secondary environment. I am aware of the issues in K to 12, but I am more aware of the issues and the gaps in post-secondary training. Often what I would see as an aboriginal educator is the need for some kind of remediation. Often the aboriginal students aren't quite ready to jump into a Bachelor of Commerce with the rest of the mainstream students.

I'd like to emphasize the significant gap in funding. On-reserve funding sources have a preference for funding their members towards trades or bachelor's degrees. If someone wanted to take entrepreneurship training, that would not be a preference for the first nation community to fund. If someone wants to get entrepreneurship training that's less than one year and that's geared towards assisting them in developing their own job on reserve, there are very few funding sources available, especially on reserve.

Other than the first nation itself funding the members, very few resources exist. Also, there is such pressure on local band resources that they cannot possibly fund all of their members. The need is so excruciating that the choice comes down to who you are going to invest in, the people who are ready to take the post-secondary training, or the people who are the most vulnerable, through life skills training, etc.

There just aren't adequate resources, especially in interventions that are less than a year or certificate-type programs that are actually mandated to create local employment. I absolutely think that more needs to be done in in-reach programming. All of the programming that we are talking about is getting people out of their communities, which some just don't want, rather than having programming that's culturally relevant and meets their needs come to them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much.

Now, it's over to MP Long, for six minutes.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you to all of our witnesses this morning. These are very interesting conversations.

Our committee is here to come up with a strategy, to help our minister develop a national poverty reduction strategy. Ultimately, that's why we are here, and that's why as witnesses you are testifying or presenting before us, to help us come up with that plan.

Ms. Flanagan, first I want to congratulate you on what I think is a wonderful organization doing many great things. We are strong proponents here—I am, for sure—of early learning and how important it is to break that barrier, to break that line of poverty, if you will. We see so many programs out there that I call band-aids. They don't really get to the root of the problem, which is early learning.

There is a program in Saint John called Sistema, which encourages youth to participate and learn culturally and build relationships through orchestra.

My first question for you is, how do you see us, as a federal government, working with Actua, helping you increase the programs so that even more youth can participate? What can we do federally to help you?

[Jennifer Flanagan]

Federal funding is important. I hesitate to say that first out of the gate. Actua has long been having this conversation. How do we scale up? We've been talking to government for a long time, and we have not made a funding request. We have been funded primarily by the corporate sector, with foundation support. We get one-off federal government project funds, and those are helpful, but they are one-off projects.

We are at a time now when what we are delivering is in complete alignment with federal priorities and strategies in terms of inclusiveness, indigenous education, gender issues and gender parity, poverty alleviation, national skills agenda, and building an innovation culture. All of those things have been identified as critical, and yet, to date—although I'm very optimistic—there has not been a significant amount of federal support for youth engagement in skills building, specifically in science and technology. It's been very minimal.

My two asks are for an increase of that funding pool, obviously, and, as important, a formal recognition of youth engagement before university age and how that contributes to future skills and competencies, workforce readiness, employability, and the innovation agenda.