Evidence of meeting #31 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was education.
A video is available from Parliament.
Joy Hewitt Chief Employment Coach, Meticulon
I think you've been echoing some of—
Liberal
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bryan May
Sorry to cut you off, but we have to go MP Robillard next for six minutes.
Go ahead.
Liberal
Yves Robillard Liberal Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to start by commending all the participants, especially you, Ms. Arte. As a former teacher, I want to say what a fine job you did on your presentation this morning. I encourage you to run as a candidate in the next federal election.
Liberal
Yves Robillard Liberal Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
It could be. I'll be her mentor.
My question is for Ms. Pace or Ms. Patterson.
Federal initiatives such as labour market development agreements, Canada job fund agreements, labour market agreements for persons with disabilities, and the targeted initiative for older workers, meaning those between the ages of 55 and 64, are provided to Canadians to support their employment. Do these initiatives fully meet the needs of the community? Are there ways to improve them?
Adviser, Peel Poverty Reduction Strategy Committee
Thank you for the question.
Part of the challenge is that when you design programs nationally, they don't often take into account the local context, so when we suggest the need for federal, provincial, and municipal staff to work more closely together, it's really to address what's happening on the ground. Municipalities deliver services. We are closest to folks who have the day-to-day need, so when a citizen is accessing a federal program and then has to still engage with a provincial or municipal program, you see where the gaps are. You see what doesn't work.
Programs do work. They don't necessarily work for every population, but really what's needed is more of the local context so that programs offer enough flexibility to be able to adapt to what's happening locally.
Liberal
Yves Robillard Liberal Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
What successful strategies have you put in place to help members of vulnerable groups find employment? Why were the strategies effective?
Adviser, Peel Poverty Reduction Strategy Committee
The example that we provided in terms of the Region of Peel offering the model employer initiative is an example of success because it provides mostly for women who have been out of the workforce. They have trouble getting that job that pays a living wage. They may be able to get employment, but it's underemployment. They're getting part-time work, working a few hours, working contract. It doesn't meet their child care needs, so they have to turn it down.
That type of example is a good one that can be easily replicated anywhere as something that provides both the employment opportunity but also support, help, mentoring, life skills, understanding the workplace, really getting the foot in the door, and being able to have something current on the resumé.
The key to it, though, is the support, the hand-holding, and the mentoring that has to accompany that, so while the placement is six months or a year, and doesn't extend beyond that, it at least allows them to do a job search that matches their skills. It really is a way to get them some meaningful employment that meets their needs with the income they need and the opportunity they need.
For most people, it's the opportunity. They don't have the networks that you and I have, so for most jobs it's networking. Again, that's another example of what works, particularly for those who have had to struggle to get into the workforce.
Liberal
Liberal
Dan Ruimy Liberal Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
Great, thanks.
Thank you very much everybody. I only have a short period of time, so I'm going to jump right into it.
Mr. Wafer, congratulations. I spent the last 30 years in the QSR industy. I know how tough it is and I think you're doing an amazing job.
The question I have for you is, how can we get more businesses on board? Are you involved with initiatives such as the Peel...? Maybe not necessarily that one, but are you involved with organizations like that? How do we encourage more businesses to get on board with this?
President, Megleen operating as Tim Hortons, As an Individual
The unemployment rate has not changed really in the last 30 years, so we know that the initiatives that we've had to date have had limited success. Where we see the most success now is when we talk about this from an economic point of view. More importantly, who is going to communicate that message to businesses? It has to come from businesses themselves.
As a small business owner with 250 employees, I can have a conversation with the CEO of General Motors, for example. We understand each other. Yes, it's on a completely different scale, but we understand each other.
Three years ago, I co-founded Canadian Business SenseAbility. That was the first real national organization that was created for business by business. We're having those types of conversations with Canadian corporations.
Just a few days ago in Canada, Diversity 50 was announced. I happened to be at the reception, and the discussion around diversity in corporate Canada is still on the low-hanging fruit. They're still talking about women in executive positions. They're still talking about culture and LGBT. That's wonderful, but we need to move the conversation toward the other end of the spectrum of diversity, and that gets harder and harder to do.
Indigenous people, first nations, and of course, people with disabilities are largely being ignored. All of that is based on fear. CEOs tell me that all day long. They are very fearful of stepping into what they believe is a minefield.
Education is the key. Awareness is the key. Explain the message of the economic benefits of inclusion, not only to the company but to the economy at large and to the individual.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bryan May
Thank you sir. I'm sorry to cut you off. We do have to move on.
You have six minutes, MP Poilievre.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
I want to thank the witnesses. I'm incredibly inspired today. I wanted particularly to have Meticulon, Mr. Stapleton, and Mr. Wafer here because of the work they have done in the area of employing disabled people.
I think there's nothing more reprehensible than the idea of writing people off, saying that someone is different, therefore, they can't work. We'll just send them a cheque, and they can sit in a rocking chair and go into a long-term care facility from age 25, and that's the way they will live the rest of their lives. That is appalling. That's why I'm so inspired by what you are doing, starting with Mr. Wafer, putting your money where your mouth is, paying people a full salary. This is not a subsidized wage. It is not below minimum wage. It is not a sheltered workshop, where you pay $1.50 an hour. It is a full wage, doing the same work and getting the same money as everybody else. That should be our goal.
In Ontario, the government has made a decision to phase out sheltered workshops. It is a decision you supported, Mr. Wafer. I think this provides both an opportunity and a risk. The risk is that the private sector will do nothing to replace it, and the government will do nothing to replace it. Therefore, the people who would otherwise be going there will have no opportunity to do anything whatsoever except to go into some sort of day program, if they're lucky.
The opportunity, though, is that we can have more stories like yours, that instead of paying people $1.50 an hour to do work, we will pay them a full wage that is consistent with the value that they're adding.
We have an opportunities fund in Ottawa. We have federally mandated labour market agreements for persons with disabilities. How do we marshal those programs to carry out a successful transformation of our labour market to get these people into full-paying, private sector jobs, like the ones you've created in your workplace?
President, Megleen operating as Tim Hortons, As an Individual
I think what we need to do is repurpose the resources that we already have, the opportunities fund being a start, federal-provincial transfer funds being the other. The federal government sets the rules. It's the government that sets the rules, and then departments within the provinces, such as the Ministry of Training, Colleges and Universities, follow suit based on what the federal government is saying.
It's very important that the federal government set the tone and set the intent of what these monies are to be used for, and how we do interviews and how we educate employers, so that when we do shut down the sheltered workshops, 50% of people who are in sheltered workshops today, who are employable, actually find a job. We can only do that if we open doors. We can't do it by increasing social services or increasing taxpayers' money. None of that will have any effect on this. The only thing that is going to work is if employers see that there's a valid reason to open their doors.
There's one important thing I want to mention about the sheltered workshop, and that is that human beings tend to judge people who have a disability. It's normal; we all do it. I do it. I see somebody who comes into my business with a disability and I do a sort of litmus test. That's even someone like me who has a lot of experience. I think I know the capacity and the capability of that person who's coming through the door. I've hired 145 people in the past 21 years, and I was wrong 145 times about the capability and the capacity of those people, especially if the individual had an intellectual disability.
We do not see the capacity and capability of people who have intellectual disabilities until they receive a paycheque, and that is why people with Down's syndrome and autism are languishing in these sheltered workshops, because nobody has yet seen the capability of those people. That's why we have to get them into the workforce.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
That's what Meticulon is doing, unlocking this hidden genius.
How do we get employers to hire the kinds of people who you bring to the workforce, Meticulon? That's for Garth or Joy, whoever.
Chief Executive Officer, Meticulon
We have to start with what they really need. We have to start with where they have problems in their company that people with gifts, like people with autism or people with Down's syndrome or other things, can contribute to. That's a conversation that is bigger than, “Hey, let's do some good.”
When we began we got sent to the corporate social responsibility departments of every company that we tried to pitch to. It was big. We didn't want to talk to them. We wanted to talk to the operations people and line managers. It's been said again and again today that education is the key, but it's not education about disabilities; it's not even education necessarily about what autism is or any other challenges that people with disabilities have. It's education from the people who are in the trenches doing this who have had success, both from the self-advocates, as well as from people who are working.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
Sorry, go ahead.
I just have one last question after that. Do I have time?