Human Resources Committee on March 21st, 2016

[Anthony Giles]

Normally, that is included. If the information is not sufficient, the board has the power to ask the union to provide more detailed information.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

According to section 149.01, which will be repealed, this is already in the public domain. We can see that the members of the union may have access to that information.

Moreover, I would like to know if the salaries of the union executives can be disclosed to the members.

[Anthony Giles]

I don't know.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

To my knowledge, they can be. This concerns the trustee as well as certain employees, and it says that a unionized worker has access to that information when he or she requests it. That is exactly what we were proposing.

It also talks about the time the staff spends on political activities and lobbying as well as other non-labour relations activities.

Can a unionized worker have access to that information?

[Anthony Giles]

I expect that that varies according to the union. The union may make that choice, or the members may ask questions on that, but to my knowledge there is no law forcing the union to disclose that information.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Yes, I understand. The law exists, but you want to repeal it.

From what we understand, all of the information that could be requested under these laws is already accessible to unionized workers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

I believe we are going to Mr. Robillard.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Will Bill C-4 have repercussions on the Canada Industrial Relations Board and the Public Service Labour Relations and Employment Board?

[Anthony Giles]

Yes, of course, because if Bill C-4 is adopted, the number of votes held by these two boards will certainly decrease, which will reduce their expenses or the funds allocated to these matters.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Very well. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Mr. Ruimy, go ahead.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Independent research in Canada supports the department's own research that mandatory vote contributes directly to a declining rate of unionization. Studies by researchers such as Sara Slinn and Chris Riddell have demonstrated that under a mandatory voting system, employer interference, and more so employee fear of employer interference, is a real phenomenon. It's effective, and it's more effective under votes than under card-based mechanisms. The department's studies reference some of these studies.

Can you comment on this point at all?

[Anthony Giles]

I would say the majority of studies that have been conducted into this question, certainly those in Canada, indicate as you suggest, that the introduction of mandatory voting does reduce the number of applications for certification, their success rate, and ultimately the union density rate in the jurisdictions combined.

As for why that is, there are various theories, one of which you've just stated. In the context of an election, because the election takes a certain amount of time, there's always the scope for employer interference or attempts to persuade employees to vote against. There are competing theories that votes reveal true preferences.

None of the studies I'm aware of are able to determine which of those reasons is the true one, or whether indeed, as is most likely the case, it's a mix of the two.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

May I ask a follow-up question?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Yes, absolutely. You have about three minutes.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

I want to ask Mr. Deltell a follow-up question. In his comments he was referring to information that's already available.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Mr. Ruimy, you shouldn't refer questions to Mr. Deltell. You can ask the witnesses their opinion on a question.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Oh, I'm sorry.

My colleague on the other side said a lot of this information is already publicly available. If that information is already available, and putting more burden back onto the unions, what's the sense of doing that in your opinion? How does that affect their own operations and administration? Do you find that as being overburdensome?

[Anthony Giles]

I won't comment on whether it's overburdensome, but it is clear that compared to the reporting requirements under the Canada Labour Code, which are to provide members with existing financial statements, that entails less effort on the part of a union than it would be to respect all of the reporting requirements that were adopted in Bill C-377.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

Ms. Benson.

[Sheri Benson, NDP, Saskatoon West, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to the folks for coming to help us look at the issue a bit further. I'm not sure whom to address this question to, so perhaps you can share your expertise.

My background is in the charitable sector, and I know about the idea that you are receiving some kind of benefit through donations. People are getting the benefit. They're applying for a credit. There's this obligation to file information so it's transparent. It gives people some good information about where those charitable dollars are going.

It's also my understanding there was opposition to some of those changes in there and sharing more information than was felt necessary. I feel like this is a continuation of that.

To me there's no difference. Large corporations receive tax credits, and they receive subsidies and all kinds of exchanges with government funding in order to do things. There's a requirement that they file their income tax, and we see that.

I'm wondering if someone could comment on some of the differences. This was going to be around reporting requirements for the fact that individuals were getting...like if you were an engineer in the engineering association. You were a professional. You were part of the accounting association. You paid your annual dues to be a part of that group, and you got a tax credit. That's the individual piece, and then you participate in your association, and that kind of thing.

I'm interested in your general comments on the differences I feel are going to be overly burdensome. That's a hard word late in the day.

[Blaine Langdon, Chief, Charities, Personal Income Tax Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance]

Maybe I'll take that one.

You're right. In terms of registered charities, there is public disclosure of the information. We saw a copy of the return here earlier. It's a 10-page form that is available on the Canada Revenue Agency's website. The reason registered charities are required to file and have their information publicly posted is that there is an enhanced public interest in knowing where donations go and knowing which organizations the public wants to support. That's part of the rationale.

In terms of the overall reporting requirements for registered charities, there's a particular set of rules that registered charities have to abide by in order to maintain their registered charity status. They file that information, and the CRA uses that for the purposes of determining whether or not they're complying with the rules.

In terms of other types of organizations, there are a number of different types of taxes and organizations. There are non-profit organizations, labour organizations, and a variety of other exempt organizations. Different reporting requirements apply to them depending on what rules apply to them and on generally what information the CRA needs in order to determine whether or not they continue to qualify for the exemption or whether or not they're meeting the particular rules.

With the exception of charities, and currently for labour organizations and labour trusts, the information about those organizations is not generally available to the public. As with other taxpayers, be it an individual, a corporation, or a non-profit in the sense of the true non-profit, that information is not disclosed to the public. It wouldn't be available on the CRA's website or anything like that.

[Sheri Benson, NDP, Saskatoon West, SK]

Right. I guess what I'm trying to get at is there are individuals who are part of an organization who are getting similar benefits, but we're just talking about one organization among those organizations that we're asking for a much larger reporting requirement. Is that correct?

[Blaine Langdon]

I would agree with that.

[Sheri Benson, NDP, Saskatoon West, SK]

Right, and it's a particular group. It's a labour group.