Human Resources Committee on March 21st, 2016

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you, Minister.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Mr. Chairman, on a point of order, I think that usually when someone wants to table a document you have to ask permission to do so.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Fair enough.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

I want to tell the member that I welcome any document. I have no problem with that, but I wish, I want, and I hope that the government would be inspired by us when in question period we want to table very important documents.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Fair enough. That is in the House. In committee, as long as it is given to the clerk, which it has been, and as long as it is in both official languages, what Minister Mihychuk has done is actually proper.

Thank you.

But in the House, you're absolutely correct.

We'll move to Mr. Long.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you, Madam Minister, for coming, and congratulations on moving so forcefully forward on Bill C-4.

In 2012, Mr. Cuzner, as labour critic, wrote to the Canada Revenue Agency and asked that they provide the same information on its employees that Bill C-377 would require of labour organizations. They said they could not provide the information because the Privacy Act precludes the CRA from disclosing personal information about its employees.

Do you find it strange that the Conservatives were asking unions to provide private information that their own agency, CRA, refused to provide because of privacy concerns? Could you elaborate on that? Thank you.

[MaryAnn Mihychuk, Liberal, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Once again, the idea that we have to provide information to the public is now a standard principle. In fact, even with something like this, I was involved with many small businesses, and most small businesses would find this cumbersome. This is about 10 or 20 pages long. The idea that you would be required to submit hundreds of pages of financial information annually not only would cause a huge red tape administrative burden for the unions, but in fact it also would have cost government itself, CRA, an extra $2 million annually to go through these reports to ensure that every box was checked off, that every little box was filled out.

Was that necessary? No. It created a cost burden for government and a huge cost burden for trade unions and trusts that were going to be impacted by that. That is why in December we indicated that we were moving forward with this bill to relieve the financial pressures on CRA, which did not think the reports were a good idea, and to indicate to trusts and unions that they would not be required to submit tombs of information that, for their members, was already public and available.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Madam Minister, are there any other instances within the CRA or, to your knowledge, within the federal government where citizens have their name, salary, and the detailed reasons for receiving it posted on the World Wide Web?

[MaryAnn Mihychuk, Liberal, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Well, I'm not familiar with anywhere else where that is submitted and provided. This is clearly an issue of privacy and is not normally a requirement.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you.

I'll share my remaining time with Mr. Robillard.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Mr. Robillard.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I welcome all of the witnesses.

First of all, I want to say that I am going to be speaking French.

Madam Minister, may I thank you for your presence among us here today. I also thank you, as well as your colleagues, for the information you are sharing with us before this committee.

It goes without saying that this bill is important for the riding I represent, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, and for the country as a whole. From coast to coast, the important role unions play in protecting the rights of Canadian workers touches all of us, directly or indirectly. And so I am going to ask you the following question.

Madam Minister, will Bill C-4 make it easier for employees to organize, and how will it affect union dues?

[MaryAnn Mihychuk, Liberal, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Thank you for the question.

Unfortunately, I'm going to have to speak in English.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

No problem.

[MaryAnn Mihychuk, Liberal, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Will it make it easier to unionize? The answer to that is yes. I don't think businesses or Canadians need to be afraid of that.

In fact, let's reflect on the value that unions have provided. Over the decades, unions have been the stalwarts of fighting back on child labour, on improving workplace occupational health standards, on calling for equal pay for equal work, and on bringing in a place for women and indigenous people. They fight for the disabled, and of course for minimum wage.

As you know, in Winnipeg we had the big strike in 1919, when unions and the business community had two views. What resulted was a better understanding. Unfortunately, it came head to head, but unions, from that time, have been a centrepiece not only of human rights here in Canada but of human rights around the world. Even though unions are no longer as prominent and prolific as they were, they are still inspirational leaders when it comes to rights and benefits for workers, and for all workers, whether they're in a union or not.

I think this bill would facilitate unionization. I don't think we can expect to see a massive increase in unions. I think they deserve our respect. The fact is they have a strong history of representing Canadian workers, and they have a very strong role internationally. I would not expect to see a huge number of unions, and I wouldn't expect to see union dues going up either. I think things will be the status quo.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Warawa.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

Minister, it's a treat to have you here. Congratulations on your very important ministry. We look forward to working with you.

I was a member of a union for many years. Are you or have you been a member of a union?

[MaryAnn Mihychuk, Liberal, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Yes, I have been a member of CUPE. I was an earth scientist, a geologist with the Manitoba government, and then was an employer, both as a provincial minister in Manitoba and as an employer in a small business. I am not a union member, but I have been, yes.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

Minister, you held up two documents, one with many pages and one that was very small. I think the larger one represents typical annual reporting for an average-sized union. Is that right?

[MaryAnn Mihychuk, Liberal, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

This is a report form disclosure. It's called form LM-2 Labor Organization Annual Report. In the U.S. the Screen Actors Guild has 237,000 members, and I'm informed that this was the model used for Bill C-377. This is a report that we would have seen coming in this year.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

Are you speaking hypothetically? Bill C-377 was given royal assent just before the last Parliament ended. Since it was given royal assent, has there been any annual reporting through it?

[MaryAnn Mihychuk, Liberal, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

No.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

Is this an example of what you think it might be?

[MaryAnn Mihychuk, Liberal, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

That's correct.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

The smaller one is for an NGO doing annual reporting. Is that right?