Human Resources Committee on June 6th, 2017

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

The reason I'm here today is exactly for that purpose, to encourage the committee to provide their views on whether this should be a priority for our government. I have my personal view. I would that say the actions we've taken in the last year and a half demonstrate quite clearly that we feel that the well-being of seniors is a key element of my mandate as the minister responsible for seniors.

I'm certainly very enthusiastic and very supportive of your work, and I look forward to your report on how we can move forward in a manner that you judge will be the best design for us to address all of the very important challenges and opportunities that our aging population presents.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

When you receive this report, you will have been two years in your mandate, so I'm curious about the following . Why do you feel it has taken so long for this priority to come to the forefront? Is there a national seniors strategy already in the works? Is that something that your office is already working on? What steps will be taken when this report is given to you? Do you have any sense of a timeline?

I think one of the things that I've heard loud and clear—not only in my riding, but as seniors critic for the NDP across Canada—is that seniors can't wait. They have been waiting a long time. They have needed some of these solutions. You know, they appreciate some of the steps, but the reality is that poverty is overwhelming. Housing for seniors is overwhelming.

I think, most importantly, it's all the gaps. Again and again when I did the 11 town halls in my riding, what I heard from seniors was, “We don't care what level of government deals with this. We want all levels of government working together so that these big holes aren't there for us to fall through.” As we see an aging and increasingly vulnerable population, what is the timeline for real action? Canadians appreciate that we have to do our work, but they want to see action. They don't want to see another report.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Thank you.

Well, if we're looking for action, I think the last 18 months have been very clear. In less than a year and a half, what I summarized a few moments ago speaks extremely loudly: the change in the age of eligibility, the increase in the guaranteed income supplement, the substantial short-term and long-term investment in housing, the remarkable investment in home care and health care for provinces and territories, and the enhancement of the CPP, the Canada pension plan. Many Canadians had thought that the CPP enhancement would require a long time to process and negotiate with the provinces and territories, but it happened nine months after the government was elected. These actions speak very loudly, and now we're looking forward to receiving from the committee your report on how to make that coherent in a broader framework, how a national seniors strategy could make all of that fit even better together.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

You talked about the National Seniors Council in your report. Do you agree that this council should have more leeway? If so, ultimately you have the power to ask them to report back to you, but we've only seen one public report in the last two years. With the reality that we're facing of an increasing number of seniors in our country, and the gaps that they are falling through, and their increasing vulnerability, why aren't you taking full advantage of their expertise?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

That's a very good question. We've had the good fortune of meeting and talking with the current members of the National Seniors Council. We've received some very useful advice from them.

I would summarize that advice around two different lines.

The first is that they want to have more freedom when it comes to guiding the government around the seniors agenda. Second, they want to have more independence when it comes to providing their advice. So, freedom of choice and independence of advice is what we hear from them. Certainly, these are the options that we are currently following.

Minister Philpott and I haven't made the final decision as to the future structure and mandate of the seniors council, but, again, this context is perfectly suited for the committee to provide its own input into that reflection and the following actions that will take place.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much.

Now over to MP Robillard, please.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, Mr. Minister. Thank you for being here today.

I believe that our seniors are very close to your heart. The New Horizons program is one of the initiatives that your department has already undertaken.

Could you tell us more about that program?

Seniors in the constituency I represent, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, are better off because of it. I am sure that is the case for many other seniors across the country.

Do you feel that the program will support the eventual national seniors strategy?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

I am very pleased to hear from you, Mr. Robillard.

As we have indicated on a number of occasions, the New Horizons for Seniors program provides significant improvements, whether in your community, in mine, or in the communities of the members seated at this table.

Our seniors want to be taken care of but they also want to take care of their communities. Most of them are living longer, and in better health. In most cases, they are also more inclined to contribute to the development of their communities and are available to do so. It is done in an environment that rests heavily on volunteers and that implies working with other members of their communities.

The New Horizons for Seniors program has the specific objective of help for seniors by seniors. Therefore, the contribution seniors make is central. They have talent and ambition. They contribute a lot of their time and their advice and that has very significant impacts on other seniors in their communities. It is a very good program.

Once again, however, I want to encourage the members of the committee during their work to reflect on and tell us about their views on the ways in which the program could become even better. Throughout the year ahead, we are going to be interested. We eventually want to redesign the program's parameters. Your views will be very useful in that respect.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Thank you.

As a Quebec member from Laval, I would like to hear what you have to say about the bilateral federal-provincial agreement that comes to more than $400 million over two years and that is designed to improve Quebecers' access to affordable and social housing, as announced last January in Laval.

What impact will that agreement have on seniors in Quebec?

The intent is to increase access to affordable and social housing for our fellow citizens, especially our seniors. I assume that the announcement is one of many that were made across the country.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Thank you again.

It has been said a number of times, today included, that housing is a key factor in the well-being of our seniors, especially those who are more vulnerable. As we said earlier, it allows seniors to live at home while receiving the services they need.

The national housing strategy, which we are in the process of implementing and which will extend over the next 11 years, will transform the living conditions of our most vulnerable citizens, especially seniors. The investments that we will be making and the work we will be doing with our provincial, territorial and municipal partners, as well as with the social and private sectors, will reduce by half the number of families presently living in unacceptable or unaffordable living conditions.

About 30% of seniors live in unacceptable housing conditions. That percentage is going to drop by about half. It will go from 30% to 15%. That means that the Canadian government's measures alone will bring about major changes in the lives of families and communities.

In addition, we are going to work very hard with other levels of government, municipal, provincial and territorial governments, as well as with indigenous peoples and the social and private sectors, to reduce even more the number of seniors living in unacceptable housing conditions.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Thank you very much.

I would like to share the rest of my time with my colleague Ramesh.

[Ramesh Sangha, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you, minister, for coming today, and thank you for coming to Brampton to announce funding for the national housing strategy. Being a senior, I come across many other seniors in need of support. You could say that housing is a big problem for them. They sometimes have to decide between their medication and their housing—what to pay more for, and what to pay less for. That's a big problem for them. They deserve care and they deserve love. They should be getting in-house nurses coming to them with their medication.

I ask you, Minister Duclos, to please elaborate for the committee precisely how we can ensure that all our seniors are able to live a dignified life.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Thank you, Ramesh. Again, it's a great pleasure and privilege to be here with you, to come and to commend you on your own efforts. I've seen you in your riding. I've seen how committed you are to making your families and your community better.

As we all know, for seniors, the most important dimensions of their well-being revolve around feeling safe, being safe, having access to affordable housing and appropriate health care services, and being able to participate in their community. All these are key elements through which our government can make a difference.

As we mentioned earlier, the housing investments we are going to make over the next 11 years will transform the lives of hundreds of thousands of seniors. We have already started to do this since budget 2016. We hope to pursue that for a much longer time period.

As we know, the provinces and territories fully share our ambition to make home care and mental care key priorities. We are working with them very closely on pharmaceuticals. We know that the price of medicines is often a severe concern for seniors, who have to choose between buying their medicines, feeding themselves, and housing themselves appropriately.

Finally, as I said earlier, the type of infrastructure they have access to—transport infrastructure, public transit, a healthy environment, including clean air and access to quality water—is also key to the welfare of our seniors. These are important dimensions of the infrastructure investments we'll be making in the next 11 years.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you, Minister.

Now we go over to MP Ruimy, please.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Minister, for being here today.

I've had almost two years as a new MP. Coming into this, we've heard testimony from our poverty reduction study. We heard from quite a few witnesses about the lack of affordable housing and rental housing. The challenge is not only for seniors but also for low-income persons and youth. What has become painfully clear to me is that this is not something that has happened over the last year or two. It has been the result of years of neglect, of nobody paying attention to housing for our seniors.

I would like you to expand on the $11 billion over the next 10 years for housing. How is that going to impact our seniors? What is the long-term picture? Where would that really put us over the next few years?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Thank you, Dan, for your hard work and interest in the topic.

Again, we—and “we” is inclusive of everyone around this table, I'm sure—understand how important housing is as a cornerstone in the lives of families, as well as a pillar in the lives of sustainable, inclusive communities. That's why the disengagement of the federal government over the last 20 years.... It's not been a matter of one government but of several governments. In the last 20 years, the federal government has been neglecting its responsibility when it comes to providing the quality and affordable housing that our more vulnerable Canadians need and deserve.

We are changing this, because we believe that we can't go on ignoring the housing needs of our families and communities. We are also mindful of the fact that this re-engagement of federal leadership needs to be sustained over the long term. Our partners want a long-term vision and a long-term commitment. That is why the 11-year agenda is such an appreciated and valued engagement on the part of the government.

In working with partners—other governments and the private and social sector.... I insist on the social sector because they are there and want to support us in leveraging their human and financial resources. That is why by partnering with them we'll be able to make a huge difference in the lives of so many Canadians over the next 11 years.

Just to give you an example, we project that about half of Canadians currently renting a home will be taken out of the conditions in which they live now, which are conditions of inadequate or unaffordable housing. It's the same thing for homelessness. This will have a big impact on the number of chronically or episodically homeless Canadians. With the amount of investment we'll be making over the next 11 years, we predict that about 50,000 Canadians will either be prevented from entering into homelessness or be lifted out of homelessness in each of the next 11 years. That's a very significant impact on the lives of the most desperate Canadians of all. To live without a home is almost certainly the worst living condition in which a Canadian can find himself or herself. That is going to be tremendous for these Canadians and for our society as a whole.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Certainly when I meet with seniors in my riding of Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, the challenge I see, especially with senior men—single men—is that they're not ready to go to a home, but they have nowhere else to go. Indeed, some of them end up at the local Salvation Army. What I see is that their spirits are crushed, because they're not ready to be in there.

A lot of times people look at the federal government and say, “You fix this.” Do you see this as something for one government to fix the whole problem or do you see it more as involving other municipal, provincial, private...? Where do you see that playing out?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

What we hear from Canadians and from Canadian organizations and stakeholders is great. They are saying that they have been waiting for us for a long time. They're saying that they have been very patient, but they're there now and ready to support us financially and with their human resources. But they need our presence. They need the federal government to establish this leadership through resources—and we know what these resources will be because of the budget last March—but even more important, with mechanisms through which they will be able to partner with us.

That's why it is so key to renew not only the leadership but also the mechanisms through which the housing investments will make a big impact in our communities. There will be details announced in the next few months on how we will work with provinces, territories, municipalities, and the private and the social sectors. There will be details around how, again, we will leverage the tremendous human and financial resources that partners outside of the federal government have been waiting so long for to invest in addressing the housing needs of Canadians.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much, Minister.

MP Vecchio, please.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Thank you very much, Minister, for joining us today.

Today I'm going to ask you to take off your ministerial hat and put on your economist's hat, because I have had the opportunity to watch you speak as an economist and I know what a great job you do in that.

I want to start with the old age security. You indicated why you had gone into politics and had done a study on old age security. It was because of the change from in the age of eligibility from 65 to 67, and then the reduction back down to 65.

A variety of other countries, such as the U.S., the Netherlands, Germany, and Belgium, have adopted the policy of increasing the age to 67. I want you to speculate, if you don't mind, because we recognize that the workforce will be changing drastically in the next 15 to 18 years, with the ratio of the number of workers to seniors decreasing quite a bit.

Do you believe it is necessary for the government in turn to study the changes to old age security in the future? Do you think that might be a necessary step in the future as our demographics change?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Thank you, Karen.

As you've indicated, I've had the fortune and the pleasure of getting to know you better in other environments, such as in Latin America not so long ago, but perhaps I should not speak about this in public.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

I won't mention the gifts you gave me either, which, however, were very sweet, I should mention.

That said, the question is totally appropriate. However, it rests on a source of confusion, which I would like to address at the very start. Sixty-five is the age of eligibility. It's not the age of retirement. No one forces anyone in Canada to retire at a particular age. The age of retirement is a personal decision made by families and individuals on the basis of their health, their family circumstances, their ability to retrain if they have lost their job, or the ability to continue their job in the labour force

The age of retirement is a personal decision. The age of eligibility says that, if needed, at 65 years old, Canadians can have access to a retirement pension that will prevent them from living in adverse and severe poverty.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Thank you very much. So maybe elongating that time, where somebody could access the GIS later.... And I know there was the idea of adopting it later. I believe CPP has that. If you're taking it at a later age, then you are paid a little bit more. Maybe that's something we can look at for old age security.

Now I'm going to turn the dial a little bit. Yes, I know we both have this love for chocolate, Minister Duclos, so I may have to give you a chocolate bar after this, but let's start talking about the increased costs to seniors. We recognize that there are going to be more taxes for seniors. There are going to be more taxes for Canadians, but I specifically want to look at seniors. When there are going to be taxes on necessities, I'm wondering what the federal government is going to be doing about this.

The necessities, to me, include heating, hydro, gasoline, and things like that. We recognize that the carbon pricing is going to have an impact on this. Here in the province of Ontario, for instance, we have all seen our energy bills skyrocket. My mother and father happen to be here today. I know their taxes. I know their costs. Electricity and gasoline have increased substantially. We also know that there's also a 4% charge mysteriously hidden in the delivery charge of the Ontario government. That is part of their cap-and-trade work.

So I'm asking you, what are we going to do for seniors, and how is the carbon pricing going to impact our most vulnerable seniors?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Thank you, Karen. Congratulations to your parents for having had the fortune to raise a daughter who has now come to the House of Commons.

In terms of the carbon pricing discussion, there are three objectives in that agenda. The first objective is to protect our environment and the health of our families. Clean air and a clean environment are key elements of the welfare of all Canadians but certainly also the welfare of seniors. Seniors also care about that, because they care about the welfare of their children and their grandchildren.

The second element in the agenda is to position Canada as a leader in economic development and innovation in—