Human Resources Committee on Oct. 19th, 2017

[Dr. Pat Armstrong]

In our current research, we've abandoned the term “best”. We talk about “promising”.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Sure.

[Dr. Pat Armstrong]

To go back to Raza's answer, I think it depends on what the population is. I do think that if we have a national seniors strategy, it ought to be a strategy that parallels, as we heard earlier, the Canada Health Act, that sets down the standards, rather than standardization. There's a huge difference, I think. If we set down the principles that we're trying to attain in terms of seniors, which would include, I think, making sure that all strategy is analyzed in terms of its impact on seniors, then I think we could go a long way towards getting there if we set out a set of principles that are to apply more broadly, as opposed to saying that there is one single right way that we should approach this. It has worked in terms of our hospitals and doctors.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Is there anywhere in the world that you've seen, maybe in your research, going forward with that approach?

[Dr. Pat Armstrong]

Certainly in my current research project, which is now eight years old, we have Germany, Sweden, Norway, the U.K., the United States—don't go there, especially not Texas, which is where we've been—and Canada. There's no question that we saw some very interesting practices in Germany, Sweden, and Norway especially. They don't have to do with regulation. They have to do with appropriate funding and appropriate staffing and trust as opposed to regulation and constant monitoring.

To go back to what I said about regulation, too much of our solution has been auditing again and again as opposed to figuring out how we can improve the situation. That would be one of the principles I would put in a national set of standards for seniors care.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Prud'homme, since your organization is active throughout the province, I would like to turn to rural regions.

How can we support programs or initiatives in rural regions in particular?

[Danis Prud'homme]

The quick answer is through connection, that is, helping seniors stay connected to the rest of the world since, as we know, nearly everything is done over the Internet now.

As to transit, people in the regions need a driver's licence and a car since there are no transit services like those in big cities. People will therefore be isolated. As to community transit, there are different approaches. Services are very important. When services in a village are cut, the young people leave, while the seniors stay and die off slowly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

MP Doherty, you have five minutes.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Thank you.

In these committees, sometimes we tend to be partisan, and we tend to say, “This is what we did; this is what they're not doing.”

I really appreciate being here today. This isn't the committee I normally sit on, but I think I can speak with some experience, because I've done a lot of work within my own community in terms of our women's shelter. I know that one of the most prevalent demographics in recent years in terms of those who are using our women's shelter is widowed seniors, females, who are now being housed in our women's shelter.

This is going to be more of a statement than a question, if that's okay with the committee. I very much appreciated the testimony of the witnesses who are here today, both on the phone and in person.

I would like to tell you a little about my family. My mom worked for a very long time in long-term care as well as home care. She is all of about five foot nothing, and she spoke quite a bit about the violence she encountered at the hands of some of her patients. She also spoke, over that time, about being all alone and having to restrain somebody who was much larger than she was. She first injured her back because of a violent outburst of a patient who didn't mean her harm but didn't know what he was doing at the time. She subsequently talked about, and does to this day, how she wishes she were still doing what she was doing, but she was unable to continue because of the lack of resources, whether it was in Alberta or in British Columbia, where she finished her career. She also talked about the fact that there was no lifting mechanism in the rooms, how sometimes she would have to physically try to move a patient who was much larger than she was, and how that impacted her physically.

If she were here today, she would talk to you, emotionally, about something that hasn't been mentioned today. She would talk to you about going into a first nations community to help a first nations senior.

I believe it was Ms. Phinney or Dr. Cottle who mentioned that sometimes home care isn't the best care for our seniors—not necessarily because of bad intentions but because they don't have the capacity to care for the seniors the way they really should be cared for.

I remember one where my mom told me that she went in to deal with this gentleman. It was on a Monday. The last she had seen him was on a Friday. She said her heart broke, as the gentleman was still sitting in the same spot he was sitting in on the Friday. He had not been moved. He was still sitting in the clothes and the undergarments and the sanitary products that she had put him in on Friday. The rash and the pain that this gentleman was in, and the frustration for being left there, looking out a window—that broke my mom's heart.

Now I'm going to talk to you about my brother, who really is my hero. He's battled cancer twice. He is a senior care aide in a long-term facility in the Okanagan, and he works with the union, representing those who are in those facilities in the Okanagan. He tells me about the pain that the care aides go through, because they want to do better. They are in this profession because they want to help.

Mr. Chair, you can tell me if I'm going too long. This is more of a grandstand than it is anything else.

As I mentioned to my colleague, I really applaud the group that is around the table here. I don't think this is a time for partisan politics. I think we need to move forward. I can tell you quite confidently that when you're speaking to those who are in this profession, they want to help, but they don't have the resources. They haven't been given the resources. Far too often they are faced with overtime. They're tired. There is emotional stress on them. They care for these people, and they see their charges suffering because not enough resources have been given to help care for them.

I applaud you for looking at this, but I challenge you to come up with something that is manageable and that will have an impact, because we need this. Whether it is in Nova Scotia or British Columbia, we have seniors who are suffering. Every government is well intentioned, but we can do better and we must do better. I can tell you from examples that I know all too well.

I want to talk to Ms. Cottle and Ms. Armstrong, if I have a second.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

I'm afraid you don't. I've let you go on for an extra—

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Okay. I'll be real quick.

I also have a grandmother who is in a care facility, a for-profit care facility, who will tell you that her milk has been cut to skim milk, and she's trying to put weight on her bones. It is a real concern.

I applaud you all for being here, and I thank you, witnesses, because it is uplifting that you guys are actually working on this. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Well said, sir.

I'd like to very quickly go to Rachel Blaney.

You have three minutes.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you.

I want to come back to you again, Pat. One of the things we talked about very briefly was the realities of remote and rural communities. I know in my riding we have a lot of people leaving large urban centres as they retire. They're buying a great house and feeling fabulous, but then as they age, they're in isolated communities, in houses that are much too big. I'm just wondering about some of the solutions around geriatric care in those communities, and whether there is any solution. Have you seen that in any other country?

[Dr. Pat Armstrong]

I think one of the things that we are starting to do actually here in Canada is to combine hospitals and long-term care and assisted living, creating a community of those facilities. Rather than closing all our tiny hospitals and closing all of those things in small communities, we can combine all of the services to make them one real service.

I grew up in a tiny town in northern Ontario, and I've seen it work there. It's working in some of the Nordic countries. We were in a place in northern Sweden—we go in for over a week with a team of 14 people to look at these places—and their nursing home is physically part of the town swimming pool and the town recreation program. It's all one great big community. The cinema is there. By integrating all of the services, I think that we could do that in some of the small rural communities in a way that would keep them there.

The other problem for people in rural areas, which we heard about earlier, is the question of transportation. Of course, it's magnified for people in rural communities, which is something we need to look at as well.

I think step number one is combining services and keeping the hospitals. If you're old, you can't live in some place that is 60 miles away from a hospital, especially in Canada, given our weather, so you need to have those kinds of services there. We could do that by combining them rather than eliminating them.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

In your words to us, the last thing you said was that we need to do something before it's too late. Can you just tell me what that means for you?

[Dr. Pat Armstrong]

Well, I think we need to right away start putting resources into health services that are combined, that cover the full spectrum, and that are based on principles and standards that recognize seniors.

If I could say one last thing, I was going to talk about learning iPods. I've hired a teenager to teach me how to use my electronics.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

That's very useful.

[Dr. Pat Armstrong]

That's probably the best advice I can offer today.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much to all of you who are here today.

I apologize for the technical difficulties earlier, but I'm glad we were able to hear from everybody clearly. I appreciate the contribution that all of you have made to this study.

We are going to break for literally a minute, maybe two, as we do have some committee business, so I do have to ask you to shuffle on out fairly quickly.

Again, I sincerely thank you for being with us today.

[Proceedings continue in camera]