Human Resources Committee on Nov. 2nd, 2017

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

One of the issues we have to contend with, especially in public treatment centres, is making sure that the highest standard of care is provided, and that includes making sure that areas are free of discrimination. We come across all walks of life at the end of life, because all life has an end. You would support training, for example, to make sure homophobia is not present in the treatment of individuals or that racism or colonialism isn't extended. Is that part of the training?

[Susan Westhaver]

Absolutely it is.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Thank you, and thank you for the work you do. It's incredibly important.

Marika, I have a couple of questions. In terms of how we proceed with this, I'm going to assume that co-op housing is one of the models that could wrap around the proposal you're suggesting and that the creation of co-op housing is, in some ways, a modified version of the same model you're talking about.

This links back to the earlier questions. Women who age into care and into the need for affordable housing often emerge from very marginalized economic communities, from social or physical marginalization and threats, and require specified care and care that is unique, care that is different from what it might be if men were present. In fact, the presence of men may undermine their sense of security and sense of safety.

Would you support a carve-out that was aimed specifically at aging women to create communities for women who have emerged from these vulnerabilities to make sure their situation is spoken to directly, as opposed to a more general housing fund that was simply competed for by all groups equally?

[Marika Albert]

Thank you for bringing that up. I totally agree. There is a model of shared accommodation specifically for women that's very popular in the United States. It's called the Golden Girls Network. In this model of housing, smaller groups of women share collective space. It's a safe space they create together. They have in-house supports. I think that's a model we can use to recognize the unique needs of women and elderly women who have experienced trauma and violence.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Then you would support a specific recommendation within a report on seniors, but also a report generally around housing, that would support housing for women and particularly for older women?

[Marika Albert]

That's correct. I would definitely support that.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Certain segments of society are easier to house than others. For example, veterans are easier to house than schizophrenics. It's part of the prejudice marginalized people face. There's almost a hierarchy of privilege, even among those who are poor.

In terms of making sure people aren't zoned against or certain groups aren't privileged over others, how would you build a human rights framework around the right for housing, beyond just saying you have a right to a house? Getting the right kind of housing is even more critical than just simply having a roof over your head. How would you make sure funding partners respect that process to make sure people who have dementia aren't treated differently from those who have addictions, are indigenous, or are veterans of the armed forces?

[Marika Albert]

That's a good question. It would take much more time for me to get into it at this point. I would love to be able to do some research around it.

However, I think fundamentally we do have some tools available to us now. In British Columbia, for instance, we have just reinstated the Human Rights Commission. Also, we're currently working on a project locally. We're trying to find some funding to do a project on how zoning and human rights can be at odds. We're currently looking at how to address that and how permit hearings, for instance, can be a place where people are being actively discriminated against. Local municipal officials are challenged in that they want to build more, but at the same time they have neighbours who are actively discriminating against people who are going to be living in those homes.

I can't say there's one answer at this point. I would love to do some more work looking into a framework, but we have the legislative pieces there and we have the human rights code. We need to be able to knit those two together and then work with local governments particularly, because I think that is where a lot of this takes place. We have many examples I can share of what's happening here in Victoria around this to actively work with them and the local neighbourhood organizations involved in the permit hearing and land use processes to educate them about what behaviour contravenes our human rights.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Mayor Helps is a tremendous help on that file. I've met with her several times.

Thanks for your help today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much.

Now we'll go over to MP Benson.

[Sheri Benson, NDP, Saskatoon West, SK]

Thank you. I'll do my best to live up to my colleague's efforts here on the committee.

Susan, I'm wondering if I could put some questions to you. I'm interested in your feedback.

One issue is that things start under one government and then they end. We get a new government, and sometimes things don't continue. In the previous government we had an end-of-life secretariat that was working toward a national palliative care, end-of-life strategy. Because of your personal experience and expertise.... I think I know the answer, but I'm interested in how you frame it. Should an end-of-life care strategy be part of a national seniors strategy? How would you see palliative care being part of that?

I guess the obvious answer is yes, but maybe you could think about—

[Susan Westhaver]

It's more so just for the person that's sick and the caregiver as well. I don't know how it could happen that this could be possible. It's really important for both the dying person and the caregiver to get that care.

[Sheri Benson, NDP, Saskatoon West, SK]

I came in on the tail end of your comments. One way to ensure that we focus on all parts of the strategy is to identify important stakeholders, for lack of a better word, that need to have a point of view. That needs to be part of a big point of view, but stakeholders have a specific one. You've talked about caregivers and that, but speak to that piece in particular.

[Susan Westhaver]

I think when people are admitted or when they're put into palliative care, if they're dying, the doctors could be a little more.... I shouldn't even say that. More awareness should be placed on when people are elderly and they're dying in their home. Perhaps some more support could be offered, more support than what may be available now—namely, more home care and definitely more hospice beds. Again, the hospice environment offers help for both the dying and the family members.

[Sheri Benson, NDP, Saskatoon West, SK]

Thank you.

Do you have a sense that it might be important to have the federal government play a role in developing standards around care? I think it's possible to do that and still allow communities and families to...not do their own thing, but you know what I mean—allow that to happen. Do you think there's a role for that?

[Susan Westhaver]

In our health care system in British Columbia we have our standards, and our hospice is run with the help of Fraser Health. Our nurses are employees of Fraser Health. Each hospice has its own training program, so everybody's is a little bit different.

I'm saying that Langley Hospice is probably the best in the Lower Mainland. Our children's program.... It's the opposite from the seniors', but our children's program is an amazing support for children who are going through grief. Standardizing is a scary word sometimes, when you're dealing with things like emotions and death.

[Sheri Benson, NDP, Saskatoon West, SK]

Maybe I could put it a bit differently. Do you think there's a role for the federal government to be a conduit to best practices, to provide an ability for one community to share what's working?

I think part of the challenge sometimes in a country like ours is that although we have universal health care, it depends on where you live sometimes as to how good that is and how accessible it is. Could that be something the federal government could do, be that conduit? Do you get connected with other palliative care volunteer hospice programs across the country?

[Susan Westhaver]

As a volunteer, no, I don't. I am not up at that level, but I'm sure the Langley Hospice association does.

I just do my shift at the residence. I don't really get too involved in the politics of it all, but I can't see how that could hurt one bit. The more information you can share and the more people you have in your army going after the same thing, the more power hospices could have as a voice for our seniors, particularly in this venue, to help them at the end of life. It's a good thing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you. You did an excellent job.

We now move over to MP Fortier.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you.

Last week, I had the privilege of holding two consultation meetings on the issue of housing and social inclusion for seniors in my community. Housing is obviously the priority.

Ms. Albert, I'm very interested in the model you are proposing. I'm going to check whether it already exists in my riding, Ottawa—Vanier. I'm not sure, but you might know. It's likely a model that could be adapted and implemented in my community.

I am wondering about something, though, and you can help me with this. We have many vulnerable people in our society. We have people who are homeless and those who live in poverty. I'm curious as to whether your model could be tailored to help vulnerable individuals, even though it falls within the private realm, if I'm not mistaken.

I was hoping you could discuss the feasibility of that.

[Marika Albert]

Yes, absolutely. The co-care model, which is the main organizing principle of co-housing, can be picked up and put in any kind of multi-unit situation, because part of it is philosophical. It is also a way to organize care across a small community. For instance, co-op housing has been a great source of low-income housing for families across Canada. You can take a model like co-care and put it in a co-op housing environment, and it would work wonderfully because people are already working together. It's about how to coordinate that care across that situation.

We can do it in transitional housing, for instance. We have transitional housing units here that are in buildings where we can also put this model in place. What's really great is that the residents are very involved in organizing that care as well, so there is a democratic element to it. The co-care model really.... I think co-housing is great, but co-care, for me, is the kernel. That's the piece we want to be able to transfer out.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

To help me better understand your model, I'd like to know whether the organization has some sort of governance structure that gives community members a say in the investment or promotion side. You may have already talked about it, but I'd appreciate it if you would repeat what you said.

[Marika Albert]

Again, it really comes down to where this kind of co-care model is being housed. If it's being housed in a co-housing development, then all of those individuals who are there are part of a strata, so strata legislation dictates how they make their decisions around what's affected in that particular development.

In a co-op housing situation, again, there is a democratic process. People are involved in organizing, in the committee. It's a co-owned environment, so there are already internal processes in place to have individuals involved. We have the more private side of it in a co-housing situation, and then a more public, funded side with the co-op housing situation. Both models could be easily adaptable, because they have the individuals living there involved in decision-making already.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I see.

Thank you very much. That was very interesting.

I don't have any more questions, Mr. Chair. Mr. Vaughan can have whatever time I have left.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

If Mr. Vaughan wants a minute....