Evidence of meeting #85 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was workplace.
A video is available from Parliament.
Director, Workplace Policies, Programs, Engagement and Ethics , Treasury Board Secretariat
If I could add, it did include drop-down follow-ups to clarify what that meant. There was a definition provided to help people understand what that meant, and then they were asked the question.
Conservative
Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB
Okay.
Ms. Clarkin, I ask because I think you made the comment that pressure to complete work was considered harassment?
Director, Workplace Policies, Programs, Engagement and Ethics , Treasury Board Secretariat
Again, when we define it, if it's not there and that's why people come forward with complaints.... They might see that the work-life balance is not being respected or that someone is talking to them with a certain tone. Everybody is welcome to bring these pieces forward, but in our survey, we do clarify what we consider to be harassment.
That said, if somebody is experiencing something like this, it's still important for managers to deal with it and to help resolve these situations. That's why, in the process that's set up, it really is to start informally and immediately, because we want to deal with these issues right away.
Conservative
Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB
Okay. My point there would be that I hope that the pressure people experience to complete work or to complete it on time wouldn't be considered harassment. I would think that all of you had felt a degree of pressure to be here today. I don't think you consider this an employee perk—
Conservative
Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB
—but I certainly wouldn't want you to be thinking that this is a form of harassment of you by the government for the good work that you're all doing for our country, and I want to thank you for that.
Executive Director, Compensation and Labour Relations Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
If I could add, it does does come down to the question that a perception of one individual is not necessarily the same as another's perception.
Conservative
Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB
That's correct, and I wouldn't want to suggest that one survey over another is a trend. Certainly it's a direction, but it's not a trend. Maybe it's an anomaly. I hope it is.
Director, Workplace Policies, Programs, Engagement and Ethics , Treasury Board Secretariat
As you raise, that is really a picture of a moment in time, so there can be extraneous things influencing it. That's why we're looking forward to seeing the results of our most recent survey and seeing if we can have a trend, or if it is just another key situation to react to.
Conservative
Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB
Good. Thank you.
I can see that I'm not even nearly going to get to all my questions.
Ms. Dufresne-Meek, your organization has an employee assistance program. Is it an internal or an external program?
Director General, Labour Relations and Workplace Management, Correctional Service of Canada
We have an employee assistance program that is a mix. We have employee assistance referral agents. They're volunteers within the organization. About 700 to 900 employees have come forward to volunteer. They were trained by the employer to provide support, a listening ear, and referral services to a variety of community resources. We also have a contract with an external provider—it's actually Health Canada for employee assistance services—for short-term counselling.
Conservative
Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB
Do you have any stats on the percentage of employees who avail themselves of that service?
Director General, Labour Relations and Workplace Management, Correctional Service of Canada
The last stat I have is that around 14% currently avail themselves of the external service for employee assistance.
Conservative
Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB
I know that it could be for a variety of reasons. It could be for family issues. I wouldn't suggest that it's all harassment related.
Mr. White, from listening to and reading your presentation, I see that you just have an internal process, a peer-to-peer process. Do you feel that your members and your staff have the confidence in the process that their confidentiality, their autonomy, will be respected?
A/Commr Stephen White
Our peer-to-peer program is built very much on confidentiality. Similar to my colleague mentioned, we also have employee assistance services through Health Canada. We joined in 2013, I believe. We have that same access to short-term counselling through Health Canada. It's a 24-7 service.
We have been seeing, year over year, an increase in the number of our employees who have been taking advantage of that service. For us to see the numbers go up is not a negative thing, because we are doing a lot of awareness and promotion around Health Canada's employee assistance service. We're encouraging our employees to contact that service, and they are. That service is available for their families as well.
Conservative
Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB
Okay.
Just briefly, when you actually get harassment complaints directed towards you from your staff, do you know the approximate percentage between what would be considered bullying and what would be sexual in nature?
C/Supt Jasmin Breton
I don't have the exact stats separated in those exact terms, but we would take whatever complaint is deemed to be harassment as a harassment complaint and mix it in as one complaint. From there the investigation ensues.
One important point I want to emphasize from the RCMP perspective is that we have a centralized system. Like CBSA, obviously our workplaces are geographically all across Canada. All the complaints come in to our centre here in Ottawa. They're analyzed by analysts and then they're sent back out to the divisions for investigation. I think that's an important point.
To answer your question, if it's brought in as bullying and/or harassment, we mix it in as one complaint under the definition.
Liberal
Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
Thank you.
Thank you very much, all of you, for being here to answer our questions.
Mr. Graham, I'd like to go back to that statistic of the 22% who are experiencing harassment. You indicated that a large percentage within that have taken no action, the reasons being a fear of reprisal and a concern about the process. One of the things that can create that, of course, is that if you see others go through a process, it's re-traumatizing, it takes a long time, and then there's no outcome, it can actually deter others from going through the process.
What things could we do within Bill C-65 that would turn that around? I think we all agree that it's unacceptable that so many people are not taking action even though they are facing harassment.
Executive Director, Compensation and Labour Relations Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
I think one thing that has been done in Bill C-65 is its whole confidentiality aspect. It should encourage people to come forward as long as they have the confidence that it will be kept confidential.
That in itself, though, may pose a bit of a difficulty if there is action that possibly needs to take place, and I'm thinking in the form of discipline or something like that. It will be confidential to the investigation, relative to a harassment that's taking place, and with the competent person, so it's not necessarily information that can be used by the employer.
Liberal
Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
With confidentiality, how does one ensure that a person about whom there have have been multiple complaints of harassment or sexual violence of multiple other employees isn't promoted or advanced in different places because of that confidentiality?
Executive Director, Compensation and Labour Relations Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
That's a challenge. It's a challenge to get people to come forward. I think the thrust of this legislation, for the most part, is about preventing harassment and violence in the workplace. To some degree it is different from what we've had as an existing harassment policy, which has been more targeted to individual situations, but it would demand, obviously.... You don't have that confidentiality protection.
Liberal
Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
Ms. Dufresne-Meek, you mentioned a tip line or a generic email. We know that often the people who are targeted are in the most precarious situations, often as new or young employees, and that somebody else, maybe more senior, would see this and be able to report it. How does that tip line work?
