Human Resources Committee on April 16th, 2018

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Good afternoon, everybody.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Monday, January 29, 2018, we're dealing with Bill C-65, An Act to amend the Canada Labour Code (harassment and violence), the Parliamentary Employment and Staff Relations Act and the Budget Implementation Act, 2017, No. 1.

We are here to do clause by clause but before we get into that, I would like to recognize that we have a number of guests joining us today. From the Department of Employment and Social Development, we have Brenda Baxter, director general, workplace directorate, labour program; and Barbara Moran, director general, strategic policy, analysis and workplace, labour program. From the Department of Public Works and Government Services, we have Charles Bernard, director general, portfolio and government affairs.

Welcome to all of you.

For the benefit of my colleagues, they are here to answer any questions that you may have from a potential legal perspective on some of the amendments, and especially if we get into amending those amendments. There may be some specific ramifications and we may want to utilize the services of the people sitting before us.

Also, because it is going to be captured in Hansard, I would like to wish MP Dabrusin a happy birthday.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

We won't sing, but that would be interesting, if it were sung, to see how they would actually write that out in Hansard.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Yes, out of tune.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Out of tune.

We're going to jump right into it, folks. We've got quite a few amendments to go through. We have today and Wednesday to get through this, per the schedule, and I hope we can move with some expediency but also have some good discussion on the motions in front of us.

It has been said many times that the key to this bill is that we get it right. We have before us a number of amendments that I think will help to strengthen and improve this legislation.

Also, I'd just like to remind you that we do not have to read the amendments as we go through them.

We're going to start with NDP-1. Is there any debate on amendment number 1?

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach, Salaberry—Suroît, NDP]

Hello, Mr. Chair.

Hello everyone. I am replacing Ms. Trudel at the last minute, so please bear with me.

We are presenting this amendment on behalf of the Teamsters Canada Youth Committee. Representatives of this organization have appeared before the committee to request that mental health be included in the definitions in the Canada Labour Code. As a result, the current rules would acknowledge mental health. Further, adding these three important words, “physical or mental health”, would strengthen the prevention of mental illness in the workplace.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

Mr. Warawa.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I'd like to begin by congratulating member of Parliament Dabrusin on her 23rd birthday.

Conservative members will be supporting NDP-1.

(Amendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Within new clause 0.1 there is NDP-2.

MP Quach.

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In this case, there is a group of organizations supporting this amendment: the Canadian Labour Congress, the Confédération des syndicats nationaux and several others.

We want the bill to include a broader and more inclusive definition in order not to legally exclude other types of violence or harassment, such as cyberbullying, in the future. We do not want the definition of harassment to be restrictive.

Various witnesses have shared their concerns before the committee. They are worried that cases of harassment might not be included in a bill that is designed to prevent harassment and violence. That is why we would like the definition to be as broad as possible.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

Before we continue the debate and vote on this, I would like to note that, if this were adopted, amendments PV-1 and CPC-1 wouldn't be moved; they'd be considered redundant.

Go ahead, Mr. Warawa.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

Chair, as you pointed out, we have three opportunities or three options to define, or the committee may want to amend any one of those three. Before we call the question on that, and provide a fulsome discussion and debate on this issue, would it be appropriate to ask that MP Falk speak to her proposal and say why she believes it would be more appropriate?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

We could take this as a bundle, if you will. We have four amendments dealing with this particular issue.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

We'd be discussing them all at the same time, and then we can get a consensus.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

We'd have to vote separately, but yes, we could discuss them all at the same moment.

I gather, MP Falk, you would like to speak to your amendment.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Yes.

With this amendment on harassment and violence, when we had our lovely department sitting here before us, we asked about the best type of definition, and what we would need in that. We went to occupational health and safety in the Canada Labour Code. We went there, worked with legal, and put that forward, so it wasn't too broad and it wasn't too narrow.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Is there any further discussion on any of the proposed amendments in this section?

Go ahead, MP Quach.

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach]

We would simply like to add the words “gesture or contact” and “isolated or repeated” to the definition put forward by the Liberals. This is what various workers' groups have suggested to us. The words “including bullying, blackmail or coercion” should also be added to make the definition of harassment as broad as possible.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

When we get to that particular vote, you would need to propose that in a more formal fashion—a subamendment—but we could definitely discuss it at that time.

Go ahead, MP Fortier.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Our definition covers the whole range of unacceptable behaviours, without mentioning any specific conduct. Our suggestion is based on all the evidence we heard. We worked with the department to ensure that the definition is consistent with the purpose of the bill.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Is there any further discussion?

Seeing none, we're starting with NDP-2.

(Amendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])

All those in favour of amendment PV-1?

(Amendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Now on to CPC-1.

(Amendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])

On Liberal-1.

MP Quach.

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach]

I would like to propose two sub-amendments to complete the definition of “harassment and violence” put forward by the Liberals. Instead of “any action, conduct or comment“, I would insert “isolated or repeated” after “any”, and after “conduct, comment”, I would add “gesture or contact”.

This is a positive sub-amendment.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

You would like it to read “any isolated or repeated conduct, comment, gesture or contact”?

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach]

Yes, because I want it to refer to the types of comments, gestures or contact that are isolated or repeated.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I would like to ask the people who are more familiar with this language whether that would be acceptable in the definition.