Evidence of meeting #10 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was universities.
A recording is available from Parliament.
6:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sean Casey
Thank you, Ms. Kwan.
Next we have Ms. Falk.
Go ahead, please, for five minutes.
6:45 p.m.
Conservative
Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK
Thank you, Chair.
Just so you know, I will be sharing my time with Ms. Jansen.
I again want to thank all of the witnesses for all of their comments. We do know that COVID-19 has, without a doubt, put a strain on the social services and resources available to support Canadians. As has been mentioned, it has exposed the fragility of many existing resources, and our seniors have certainly been impacted by many of these gaps. During this health crisis, I have had many heartbreaking conversations with constituents who are in desperate situations.
One constituent who called my office was having difficulty getting groceries because of social distancing measures. Because of his disability, he is dependent on getting a ride into a neighbouring town to get groceries. A lot of organizations are filling these gaps for seniors. The government has provided for funding to some of these large national organizations, but the reality is that these national organizations do not have the same reach in rural Canada.
The riding I represent is made up of many small rural communities. The challenges in our rural communities differ greatly from those in urban centres. We know in bigger cities, especially those like Ottawa, it's easy to take for granted Internet access, stable mobile networks or even quick access to grocery stores.
The closure of Service Canada offices has forced Canadians in rural communities to depend on phone and Internet connections that, frankly, aren't very reliable.
I also just want to make a note that this government increased the carbon tax during this health crisis, a tax that unfairly punishes rural Canadians. For seniors on a fixed income, this is one more case of money out of their pocket.
An issue I've been hearing about is pharmacy dispensing fees. I've heard from many seniors in my riding, who live in these small communities and who need to drive into a bigger community to get their prescriptions filled and buy their groceries, etc. Many of these seniors budget their trips to town because it's costly to drive in and do their errands. That said, many seniors usually get their prescriptions filled every three months to save on trips to town and pharmacy dispensing fees.
My question is for CARP.
I'm wondering if you've heard of similar situations like this. I'm going to assume it's not just in Saskatchewan that we're experiencing this.
6:50 p.m.
Chief Policy Officer, Canadian Association of Retired Persons
No, it's right across the country. A number of the Atlantic provinces have taken steps to go back to 90 days, and Manitoba recently did as well.
I can honestly say, since the Canadian Pharmacists Association came out with that recommendation, we've received countless emails and calls from CARP members who say that these additional costs are unaffordable and unsustainable. They fear having to make additional trips to pharmacies.
Also, keep in mind, many pharmacies don't open during seniors' hours. There are a number of seniors' hours at grocery stores. Say you were to visit Loblaws: The seniors' hours are fairly early. Maybe a pharmacy may not open until 9:00, so they're making additional trips on top of that.
This is part of the out-of-pocket expense I mentioned in the beginning that seniors are being required to incur as a result of COVID. In this case, it's fully attributable to the copayments related to these prescriptions. People are being required to pay three times the amount of copayment, which is significant. With what we know about our members, they are superusers when it comes to prescription medications. Many take, on average, four prescription medications, with some taking more than 10. These costs add up and they add up quickly. We know the result of this has been that many seniors have had to make very difficult decisions about whether to put food on the table or pay for essential medicine.
We have urged all—
6:50 p.m.
Conservative
Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK
Ms. Lennox, I'm sorry; I'm so short on time. I want to make sure that Ms. Jansen has an opportunity to ask a question as well.
Thank you.
6:50 p.m.
Conservative
Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC
Thank you.
Ms. Hall, a few weeks ago I was alerted to a tragic situation that a young man, Roger Foley, was struggling with. Roger has cerebellar ataxia. He's currently being cared for in a hospital in Ontario. Roger needs an intense amount of care due to his physical limitations, and struggles with very basic things like swallowing and shifting from his bed to a sling. Roger is completely dependent on health care workers for his very life.
When the hospital informed him they were going to transfer him from hospital to a care home due to COVID-19, Roger became incredibly distressed. New caregivers, new routines, new lodgings are all real challenges for the severely disabled. Continuity of care helps them feel they have some semblance of control over their bodily autonomy.
As you can imagine, as the hospital shifted Roger, he began to despair. His new caregivers were not able to adapt easily to his particular needs and tried to force him to agree to procedures that would make his care easier on the nurses—for example, pressuring him to have a G-tube inserted rather than allowing him to eat independently with the help of a nurse.
Is this endemic in long-term care, the idea of putting the efficiencies of care ahead of the needs of the autonomy of a disabled patient, whose life is completely in the hands of the caregiver and has very little capacity to refuse?
6:50 p.m.
Liberal
6:50 p.m.
Chair, Canadian Association for Long Term Care
Okay. That's a hard one to answer with very succinctly.
Obviously, the welfare of an individual resident is absolutely the key priority. I can't speak to the full circumstances of an individual. I'm sorry to hear that has been the experience.
Care for individuals is overseen by physicians, and care is highly regulated, along with the funding that goes to these care homes across the country. They are highly regulated, inspected, licensed, and there's great oversight of the provision of care and the finances provided to these homes for the care of individuals.
I'm sorry to hear about the circumstances. It's difficult to address a specific, individual example, but that is certainly not reflective of a standard of care in long-term care.
6:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sean Casey
Thank you, Ms. Hall.
The final member to ask questions is Mr. Lauzon.
Mr. Lauzon, you have the floor for five minutes.
6:50 p.m.
Liberal
Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC
Thank you.
My question is for Ms. Lennox.
Ms. Lennox, at least three times in your answers, you said that the federal government could have done more, either in terms of engaging with the provinces or in terms of supplying personal protective equipment, and that it did not act quickly enough in that regard.
I have a very simple question for you. Are you aware that health and long-term care fall under provincial and territorial jurisdiction?
6:55 p.m.
Chief Policy Officer, Canadian Association of Retired Persons
Yes, of course.
6:55 p.m.
Liberal
Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC
You said that Canada does not produce personal protective equipment and that we depend on China for our supply. Yet we have invested $2 billion in the private sector to produce personal protective equipment.
Are you aware that some Canadian companies have converted their businesses to supply this required equipment?
6:55 p.m.
Chief Policy Officer, Canadian Association of Retired Persons
Yes, I do. I'm familiar with that. Thank you to the federal government for that investment of $2 billion. I remember it well. It was in March.
6:55 p.m.
Liberal
Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC
Then how can you explain that, in less than three months of the crisis, we have converted Canadian companies and supplied equipment to the provinces?
You also mentioned that we have not given more equipment to long-term care facilities. As you know, this is all under provincial jurisdiction. We have provided assistance to the provinces.
How do you know that the provinces have not received the equipment needed from the federal government?
6:55 p.m.
Chief Policy Officer, Canadian Association of Retired Persons
The purpose of my statement was to really emphasize the need for greater federal and provincial cooperation. I am quite familiar with the fact that provincial and territorial governments are responsible for the delivery of health care. What I would urge is better cooperation.
With respect to this pandemic, we know there were shortages in long-term care facilities' access to PPE. We know that many health care workers were not equipped with the necessary PPE to keep them safe. The consequence was that this virus spread. Also, many care workers were fearful of showing up at work, and that contributed to chronic staffing shortages right across the country.
My point was really to emphasize the need for better planning and preparation—
6:55 p.m.
Liberal
Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC
I am not talking about the labour shortage, I am talking about the shortage of personal protective equipment, which you mentioned three times.
If the province of Quebec is the hardest-hit province in Canada and the Quebec government has been able to meet healthcare workers' equipment needs, how can you base your comments on other provinces, when Quebec has been able to supply its healthcare facilities with the necessary equipment?
6:55 p.m.
Chief Policy Officer, Canadian Association of Retired Persons
I think the availability of PPE varied in many provinces. Even testing varied. It kind of depends on the jurisdiction. I'm not making a blanket statement right across the country. I know some provinces had difficulty getting consistent testing across the province, and certainly access to PPE was variable, too. Ontario is, unfortunately, the best example of this problem. Some provinces performed better than others. For example, P.E.I. had no testing capacity in March, and at the end of April could do 2,000 tests per day.
I don't know that I'm answering your question, but I think access to these types of essentials varies depending on the province.
6:55 p.m.
Liberal
Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC
Quebec asked the Canadian military to assist staff in long-term care facilities, and they stepped up quickly.
Do you believe our government would have better handled this crisis had it not respected provincial and territorial jurisdictions? Would the crisis have been better managed if the Prime Minister had decided not to respect provincial and territorial jurisdictions in order to provide direct assistance to Canadians?
6:55 p.m.
Chief Policy Officer, Canadian Association of Retired Persons
No, certainly not. I respect our Constitution. I respect the difference between the federal, provincial and territorial jurisdictions, but I think there is an opportunity for more collaboration, particularly during a pandemic, for the government to work collaboratively with the provinces to ensure that these essential supplies are there.
6:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sean Casey
Thank you, Ms. Lennox.
Thank you, Mr. Lauzon.
We have now reached the appointed hour. I would like to say thank you very much to the witnesses for being with us, for your testimony and for answering the questions.
Thank you very much to my colleagues. We will see you, I expect, on Friday.
We're adjourned.