Human Resources Committee on May 25th, 2020

[Gisèle Tassé-Goodman, President, Provincial Secretariat, Réseau FADOQ]

Good evening. I want to thank the committee for the invitation.

My name is Gisèle Tassé-Goodman. I'm the president of the Réseau FADOQ. Danis Prud'homme, the Réseau FADOQ's director general, has joined me today for this appearance.

As an organization that advocates for the rights of seniors, we can say that the current crisis has had a dramatic impact and has caused its share of concerns. Although some measures were introduced late, the Réseau FADOQ acknowledges that action has been taken.

One timely measure is the 25% decrease in the minimum RRIF withdrawal rate. However, as we told the Standing Committee on Finance, this measure received a lukewarm response from our members. Our organization believes that mandatory RRIF withdrawals should be completely eliminated for 2020.

Several government officials told us that they're monitoring the stock market situation to determine whether other measures should be added. We encourage the decision-makers to continue their discussions, particularly regarding a further decrease in the minimum withdrawal rate and the possibility of raising the mandatory age for converting RRSPs to RRIFs. These two measures would help limit the impact of the stock market decline on the financial wealth of many seniors.

Another timely measure was the one-time special payment through the GST credit. Some seniors were able to benefit from this measure. However, until recently, it was the only financial measure for seniors.

Remember that the onset of the social and health crisis led to an increase in the price of basic necessities. In addition, because of the lockdown measures, many seniors temporarily lost their circle of support, resulting in additional costs for them.

Canadian seniors had to wait until May 12 to finally hear an announcement about financial assistance. The assistance consists of a one-time payment of $300 for seniors who are eligible for the old age security pension, and an additional $200 for seniors who are eligible for the guaranteed income supplement.

The Réseau FADOQ obviously considers this a missed opportunity. Our organization believes that the government could have killed two birds with one stone by implementing measures to address the needs resulting from the pandemic, while making long-term improvements to the quality of life of the most vulnerable seniors in our society. The government had a great opportunity to fulfill its election promise to improve old age security starting in 2020.

The Réseau FADOQ has been asking for an increase in the guaranteed income supplement for many years. People who receive only old age security and the guaranteed income supplement have to live on barely $18,000 a year. After this crisis, these seniors will still be in a precarious financial situation.

One of the measures that we welcome is the temporary extension of guaranteed income supplement and allowance payments, if a senior's 2019 tax return hasn't yet been assessed. We also suggest that this type of grace period be introduced under normal circumstances.

The Réseau FADOQ is particularly interested in the protection of pension funds. Every year, employers go bankrupt while their employees' pension funds are in deficit. As a result, retirees receive reduced pensions for the rest of their lives. These workers made sacrifices throughout their lives to enjoy a well-deserved and well-planned retirement. However, their plans have been disrupted. The Réseau FADOQ is asking the federal government to better protect pension plans.

The solution must involve amending the Bankruptcy and Insolvency Act and the Companies' Creditors Arrangement Act to ensure that pension funds are ranked as priority claims.

During the crisis, measures were implemented to prevent mass bankruptcies, including through the large employer emergency financing facility, or LEEFF. We want to emphasize some of the conditions associated with the LEEFF. Recipients must agree to abide by collective agreements and to protect workers' pension plans. The LEEFF also imposes strict limits on dividends, share repurchases and executive compensation.

When a pension fund is in deficit, this type of measure should generally be applied in the business community. A company shouldn't pay dividends to its shareholders or grant bonuses to its executives when its pension fund is in perpetual deficit.

We also want to address the issue of ageism here. Seniors have often been the target of invective since the start of the crisis. We're concerned that some experienced workers may be pushed into retirement. These workers will have even less access to continuing education programs.

Seniors' rights and freedoms are also being ignored. On May 20, Patrick Lévy, the owner of the Montreal Olympia, proposed that people 65 and over be denied access to concert halls. This kind of statement is unequivocally unacceptable, inconceivable and certainly intolerable. Seniors are not a vector of COVID-19; they are its first victims. It is important that discrimination not cause additional harm to all seniors. We hope that the Government of Canada will be vigilant.

Finally, I must address the underfunding of health care in the provinces. According to the Conference Board of Canada, in 2018-19, federal health transfers were $38.5 billion, while total provincial and territorial spending was $174.5 billion. Health care funding accounts for 40% of provincial and territorial budgets. In contrast, the Canadian government funds only 22% of these expenditures. If this trend continues, the federal share of health care funding will drop to less than 20% by 2026.

The Réseau FADOQ is asking the federal government to increase the indexation of the Canada Health Transfer by 6% annually, i.e. to the level it was at before 2017. Furthermore, it is important to include in the current Canada Health Transfer formula a variable that takes into account the aging of the population in the provinces and territories.

Seniors deserve to be treated with dignity, and in this regard, the provinces and territories must have the means to achieve their ambitions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you very much, Ms. Tassé-Goodman.

We'll now go to questions from members, starting with the Conservatives.

Ms. Kusie, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to turn my time over to Mr. Coakeley so he can make his presentation. He will have to do it in six minutes instead of seven.

[Simon Coakeley, Chief Executive Officer, National Association of Federal Retirees]

Thank you very much.

Thank you for giving me your time. Thank you for permitting me to speak on this important subject. I don't think I should take the six minutes.

As Mr. Soulière has noted, the consequences we have seen in many health care settings, particularly in long-term care, are tragically unsurprising to the seniors organizations and advocates who have sounded the alarm on the state of senior care in Canada for some years now.

The federal government is to be commended for rapidly answering the provinces’ calls for personal protective equipment, while also supporting Canadian business and innovation to mobilize that response. The deployment of Canadian Armed Forces members to support long-term care settings was significant and necessary, and development of long-term care guidelines for provinces and territories was an excellent example of federal leadership in health care.

We are at a critical moment for health care and seniors care in Canada. What we do next will define the health care and seniors care systems that remain for Canadians post-pandemic.

Federal Retirees is joining the call for a national review of long-term care in Canada, with a goal of ensuring that Canadians in these facilities receive the care and dignity they need and deserve. The review must be public, independent, evidence-based and informed by older adults, informal caregivers, and of course subject-matter experts.

We understand provincial and federal jurisdictions, and our comments will also be taken to provincial and territorial counterparts. Canada’s long-term care situation is a national issue. A significant, vulnerable proportion of our population has been seriously impacted by systemic failures. Difficult truths like these, once we are aware of them, must be faced head-on, collaboratively and intentionally, with the participation of all levels of government.

Global counterparts like Australian and current Canadian expertise can both form the basis for a Canadian solution. For example, we should be leveraging Veterans Affairs Canada's extensive experience in placing and monitoring veterans in long-term care. An instrument like the Canada Health Act for long-term care could serve to ensure national criteria and care standards tied to funding, along with repercussions for failing to meet standards.

Home and community care must also be part of the solution. Resource and system shifts are needed to move us away from the default reliance on long-term care and toward an expansion of home and community care services, which allow Canadians to age in place, are less costly and generally lead to better health outcomes and quality of life. National criteria and care standards tied to funding may be appropriate here as well. Again, Veterans Affairs' experience providing home care support through the veterans independence program could prove invaluable.

Informal caregivers are crucial partners in the delivery of care, and COVID-19 has impacted them and how they provide this essential care. Measures put in place because of COVID-19, like physical distancing and restricted access to long-term care facilities and similar facilities, have resulted in some informal caregivers moving family into their homes for the duration of the pandemic—some people listened to the doctor. This has led to increased stress for caregivers, as well as increased costs, and immediate financial support based on need, similar to other COVID-19 assistance, should be implemented.

Informal caregivers need to be able to safely return to long-term care facilities as soon as possible. Their absence has impacted staff, and the stress and emotional toll for residents this has caused—some with capacity issues who cannot understand why familiar faces are no longer around—cannot be underscored enough.

The federal government can support the provinces and territories by developing guidelines for the loosening of restrictions and the reintroduction of informal caregivers into long-term care, similar to the interim guidance for long-term care homes released in April.

The National Association of Federal Retirees believes the COVID-19 pandemic does not have to be characterized only by tragedy or catastrophe for any part of the Canadian population, and particularly not for older adults, their families and loved ones.

Federal Retirees will continue to work with you and with all levels of government to find opportunity in COVID-19. The pandemic made visible the cracks in health care and senior care. What happens next is up to all of us. Federal Retirees believes COVID-19 and Canada’s recovery from it can be our opportunity to make things right for seniors, for their families and for all of us who will, one day, be seniors deserving of security and dignity too.

Thank you very much.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Coakeley.

I have another minute and 20 seconds. You said in your 2020 budget submission, “Adequate staffing levels, better training and education and safe working conditions are needed to improve care. Shortfalls in long-term and home care force seniors to stay in hospitals longer than they need.”

How has COVID-19 highlighted this issue?

[Simon Coakeley]

I think it's probably premature to say with any great degree of certainty, although entries into long-term care have been restricted in many instances over the last little while, and perhaps the doctor would be in a better place to speak specifically to that.

I think the whole situation has shown the cracks, the challenges. We all knew they were there, but COVID has shone a spotlight on them. Now we are faced with these realities, and we feel it's time to start dealing with them.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Briefly, this committee previously recommended that ESDC work with provinces to develop certification processes and comparable standards for working conditions for home care and long-term care workers.

What do you think this should look like?

[Simon Coakeley]

I think it would be up to ESDC and the provinces to come up with those standards, informed, obviously, by health care experts. We do not pretend to be health care experts, but we would support national standards. We represent seniors from coast to coast to coast, and it's very difficult for us to explain to our members why they might be subject to one level of care in one province and a different level of care in another.

As to what those specific standards would be, as I say, we do not pretend to be health care experts. We would leave that to the health care and the long-term care expertise.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mrs. Kusie.

Thank you, Mr. Coakeley.

Mrs. Kusie, thank you very much for allowing Mr. Coakeley to give his opening statement. I felt very badly that we had to cut him off. That was a nice touch.

Next we have Mr. Housefather, for six minutes, please.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank all the different groups for their hard work in helping seniors in our country.

Mr. Soulière, I very much appreciated the fact that you said the federal response was strong and timely. You and the Réseau FADOQ both mentioned the increase in the GST credit, which was given fairly quickly, the increase in the guaranteed income supplement and the increase in the old age pension.

You also both said that you wanted to see a 10% increase in the old age pension for people over 75, as promised during the election campaign. You are also asking for an increase in the guaranteed income supplement for the most vulnerable seniors. I [Technical difficulty—Editor] twice since 2015, and I agree.

Mr. Chairman, I'm going to switch to English now.

I know the financial requests, but if I might, I'd like to switch to long-term care and ask questions to all of the groups on long-term care.

I agree with both of the groups that spoke about it that long-term care is an incredible embarrassment to Canada. The number of seniors who have perished and the number of seniors who have been afflicted with COVID-19 is awful.

I want to ask a question of all the groups, given the issues involved around provincial and federal jurisdiction. On the issue of home care, for example, I note the $10 billion to the provinces under a previous mandate to improve home care, but we really need to fix long-term care.

Would each of the groups recognize that while this is under provincial jurisdiction, they support the federal government now showing leadership by working with the provinces and territories to put in national standards for home care? In particular, I'd like to ask that to FADOQ, which is a group based in Quebec. Given Quebec's unique beliefs about federal-provincial jurisdiction, I'd really like to understand if they also would support that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

We can begin with the Réseau FADOQ.

Go ahead, Ms. Tassé-Goodman.

[Gisèle Tassé-Goodman]

I'm going to ask our director general Mr. Prud'homme to answer the question.

[Danis Prud'homme, Director General, Provincial Secretariat, Réseau FADOQ]

There are several things to consider when it comes to long-term care. First, we all need to work together to ensure the best possible quality of life for seniors and to set standards, because Canadian law says that health care must be equivalent everywhere.

On the other hand, it has long been known that long-term care should not be provided in CHSLDs, the residential and long-term care centres, where it is much more costly and less effective, but rather at home. Some countries have already made this shift. We should already be considering this here.

On the other hand, if we want to take care of people properly, with dignity, it means increasing health transfers and including a variable related to the aging of the population. This does not exist today, and unfortunately, that is what was decreased in the transfers.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you.

I'd like to ask the same of Mr. Nicin and Dr. Sinha. You obviously support a federal role there. You understand that it's a provincial jurisdiction. How do we get around that issue?

[Michael Nicin]

I will defer to Dr. Sinha.

[Dr. Samir Sinha]

Thank you.

I think there's an opportunity here for federal leadership, for sure, because I think all of our provinces and territories have been struggling with how to balance and provide long-term care.

In Canada, we stand out internationally, because we spend the vast majority of our dollars, our $24 billion a year, on long-term care in terms of nursing home care. It's 87% versus about 13% in home and community care.

Many other OECD countries—Denmark stands out as a great international example—spend the majority of their dollars on home and community care. By doing that, they can provide more effective care, care that doesn't leave people stranded in hospitals. They are able to receive care that is more in line with what they want and in a more sustainable way.

This is where the federal government can provide leadership. We have just seen how that leadership, with guidelines, allowed some of the smaller provinces in particular to have that support, or the role of the military in helping our two most unstable provinces at the moment better manage their needs.

I think there are opportunities here, as we saw with the recent health accord, in terms of helping to boost spending specifically on home care. However, we can't think of home care versus nursing home care. We have to think of it as a continuum. This is where the federal government, in co-operation with the provinces and territories, can help to develop a framework and figure out how best to organize it and support this kind of care.

All Canadians are aging, and the tragedies we've seen have not been limited to one province or the other. It defines everything that we've seen across the country so far.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Chair, do I have any time left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

You have 14 seconds.

Thank you very much, Mr. Housefather, and thank you, Dr. Sinha.

I will now yield the floor to Ms. Chabot.

Ms. Chabot, you have six minutes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, witnesses. You are all worthy representatives of our seniors and pensioners. We have to tell ourselves that despite the situation we're in because of COVID-19, we're not going to lose sight of such important issues, both in terms of health and in terms of finances. Seniors, particularly women, who are in the majority, have this dual concern.

My question is for Ms. Tassé-Goodman. Thank you for your participation in our committee and in the Standing Committee on Finance. I'd like to raise a topic that you have perhaps not touched on as much, namely the situation of informal caregivers. At present, they have access to a federal tax credit. Do you think that this credit should be enhanced, or be refundable?

[Gisèle Tassé-Goodman]

Mr. Prud'homme, would you like to speak? Are you familiar with this file?

[Danis Prud'homme]

Yes, I can, certainly. Thank you.

This is what we are asking for, both in Quebec and federally. We have asked for an increase from the provincial government and the federal government, because these people are very important. So is the support they provide. Above all, they allow the health care system, and therefore the government, to save a lot of money because they perform tasks for which, in the end, they are not paid. So, yes, it's very important.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

And they're mostly caregivers, too.

My other question is of concern. The Réseau FADOQ has already raised it. It affects working people as well as retired people. I am talking about pension funds. We are thinking a lot about what will follow COVID-19. We have seen many workers lose their jobs. More and more, in Quebec, we are seeing companies like Reitmans placing themselves under the protection of the Companies' Creditors Arrangement Act. There is also the Produits forestiers Résolu company.

If I understand correctly, you would agree that employers who have not funded their pension plans should do so before liquidation, so as to protect the workers' nest egg, and you would also agree that, in the event of bankruptcy, pension funds should be given priority.

Did I hear you right?

[Gisèle Tassé-Goodman]

You understood very well.

As I mentioned, it is unacceptable for shareholders and managers to be paying bonuses to themselves while workers, who have invested all their lives to build up a nest egg, realize, very close to retirement, that their pension plan is being cut.

That's unacceptable. Already during the pandemic, companies have come forward. I am thinking, for example, of Aldo and Reitmans, who talked about their difficulties in the media. These difficulties were to be expected. We are asking the federal government to do something about this by amending the two laws I mentioned.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you.

There was a temporary measure with respect to old age security and the guaranteed income supplement. The Bloc Québécois is asking that these two benefits be increased permanently as of age 65. Emergency measures can meet needs, but permanent measures are the only way to provide financial support to people who are in great need.

We have asked questions about when this temporary measure will apply. We have suggested that it should apply from March, for three months. What happens after that? We don't think that the COVID-19 crisis will be over.

Do you have any answers to these questions?