Evidence of meeting #15 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was workers.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Hassan Yussuff  President, Canadian Labour Congress
Wayne Prins  Executive Director, Christian Labour Association of Canada
Jerry Dias  President, Unifor
Ken Neumann  National Director for Canada, National Office, United Steelworkers
Dominic Lemieux  Director, District 5 - Québec, United Steelworkers
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Marie-France Lafleur

2:55 p.m.

Executive Director, Christian Labour Association of Canada

Wayne Prins

We, of course, support a shift toward a greener economy and everything to do with a more sustainable environmental impact on our lives. However, Canada is a resource-based economy. It is not wise to pretend that it's anything else, and so—

2:55 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

I appreciate that. I'm sorry, I only have so much time—

2:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

—and you've used it all up.

Thank you, Mr. Albas. Thank you, Mr. Prins.

We will go over to Mr. Dong for five minutes, please.

2:55 p.m.

Liberal

Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON

Thank you very much, Chair.

First I want to thank the panellists for taking time out of their busy schedules to join us today.

I've been listening carefully to the presentations and the Qs and As. It's very helpful.

Mr. Yussuff, I heard you commenting on different government programs to fight COVID-19, namely the CERB, the wage subsidy and also the student benefit. I want to hear a bit more about your views on each of them.

First, on the CERB, in your view, how did the CERB help protect workers to keep them safe during this stressful time?

3 p.m.

President, Canadian Labour Congress

Hassan Yussuff

As you know, none of us chose to shut the economy down to prevent the spread of the virus. It was the result of a decision made by our government. I think we had to find a way to quickly get benefits to workers. The creation of the CERB and the portal the public sector workers were able to develop to deliver that at such a speed was actually monumental for the country. We owe them and the government a debt of gratitude for how quickly this was developed.

The reality is that the CERB is a unique benefit. It is not where some workers, if they were able to collect EI, would be. Some may be higher and some may be lower, but the reality is that it struck a balance. I think the millions of workers who are getting it today are very honoured that you give them a monthly amount that they can rely upon to meet their needs.

As the economy continues to reopen, we're going to have to find a way to deal with this benefit and the challenges that might come at the end. As you know, not all workers will be going back to work in the short term, so the CERB has served a really useful purpose. I think everybody needs to be complimented for the work done and the support given. There were also some adjustments brought to the program to allow people to work and for those who are taking the risk and going to work to earn an amount above the CERB. I think that's been good. We may still have to make some changes as we go forward.

On the wage subsidy program, the expansion to cover 75% of wages up to a threshold of $800-something per week has been a good decision. It has made sure that at the end of the day most employees can stay attached to their workplace with their employer rather than being laid off. We've seen a number of companies reverse their initial decision to lay off their workers. They could keep their workers on the payroll. The government has expanded the wage subsidy program to stay open until the fall, and we're going to continue to encourage some of the employers who are currently in that program to maintain those workers on their payroll because it's better for workers to have the attachment and equally the security of knowing that they still have a job. They're not completely laid off from their employment and they might be going back to work.

3 p.m.

Liberal

Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON

Sorry for interrupting—

3 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

I'm sorry, but just a second, Mr. Dong.

Mr. Yussuff, it was so much easier for the interpreters when you held the mike close.

3 p.m.

President, Canadian Labour Congress

Hassan Yussuff

I apologize.

3 p.m.

Liberal

Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON

Thank you, Chair. I hope that time is not taken out of my five minutes.

Just on the WSIB, we've heard previously that there were concerns about some of these jobs not coming back after COVID. Do you share the same concern? How is CEWS going to help in that situation? It might be helpful or it might not. Also, what are you doing to prepare your membership in case that is a concern, that some of these jobs are not coming back?

3 p.m.

President, Canadian Labour Congress

Hassan Yussuff

It's a fact that some of these jobs will not be coming back. I don't think we need to dispute that. The reality is how we continue to support workers so they're not simply relying on social assistance to pay their bills or rent or whatever their family needs might be. We have to figure that out and we have to do it properly, because there's no other work for them to go to in the short term. We're going to have to figure out how we maintain the program.

The reality is that as businesses are starting to reopen, we'll quickly see how many workers are going back. We certainly are aware. We are talking to, for instance, the hospitality sector, which was talked about earlier in this session. It's not likely to come back with a significant number of workers going back to their jobs any time soon until people feel safe enough to want to go into a hotel or to get onto an airplane to travel. We have to take that into consideration.

I think these programs are going to need to be maintained until sometime in the future to ensure that the workers have some degree of earnings so they can continue to pay their bills.

3 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

Thank you, Mr. Dong.

3 p.m.

Liberal

Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON

That's it?

3 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

I'm very sorry, but we are past the hour.

Mr. Yussuff and Mr. Prins, thank you so much for being here with us today and for being so patient and comprehensive in your responses. It is greatly appreciated and will aid our work.

We are going to suspend for a few minutes while we allow Mr. Prins and Mr. Yussuff to be on their way and to welcome the next panel of witnesses.

3:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

We are back in session.

We would like to thank our witnesses for joining us today and for their patience as we get all of the technology adjusted.

We have with us, from Unifor, Jerry Dias, president. From the United Steelworkers, we have Ken Neumann, national director, and Dominic Lemieux, director, District 5.

Mr. Dias, please proceed with your opening statement. You have 10 minutes, but you don't need to use them all.

3:15 p.m.

Jerry Dias President, Unifor

Good luck with that.

Good afternoon, honourable Chair, members of the committee, and Dominic and Ken.

My name is Jerry Dias. I'm the national president of Unifor, Canada's largest trade union in the private sector. Unifor represents 315,000 members across the country who are working in nearly every industrial sector, including health and long-term care, retail, passenger transit, food processing, utilities, logistics and many others on the front lines of the COVID-19 pandemic.

It is a pleasure to be addressing all of you, despite having to do so remotely. I hope you have all been managing to stay safe and healthy during these difficult times. On behalf of Unifor, I sincerely appreciate the invitation to share our views on the federal government's response to the COVID-19 pandemic, and I hope what I share here will go some way towards advancing this committee's work.

We are in the midst of an unprecedented public health and economic crisis that is being felt across the entire globe. There have been 5.8 million confirmed cases of COVID-19 worldwide, with approximately 360,000 deaths, including nearly 7,000 here in Canada. With 7,000 Canadian lives lost and families in mourning, losses of this magnitude are simply beyond comprehension.

Unifor is proud to be a Canadian union. Every inch of our organization is dedicated to ensuring that the livelihoods, jobs and health of workers in Canada are protected. From our vantage point, the crisis has revealed many of the underlying flaws and weaknesses in our country's labour market institutions.

For example, early on in this crisis, it became blindingly clear that our unemployment insurance wasn't going to cut it. Decades of cutbacks and terrible rule changes all but guaranteed that this vital program wasn't equipped to deal with a sharp increase in unemployment.

For one, the system simply couldn't handle the flood of claims as workers were laid off in the millions, but more than that, many workers just simply didn't qualify. On a good day, less than half of unemployed Canadians actually qualify—42%, to be exact—for an insurance system they all pay into. If you can imagine it, those with low incomes, including the precariously employed, benefit less from the program than those who are financially well off.

EI has become a needlessly complicated program that punishes workers for being unemployed, denying them benefits, clawing back earnings and replacing only a small amount for them to live on. Then a crisis like this hits and the systems seizes. To their credit, the federal government quickly realized that they had to change tack. They created the Canada emergency response benefit program. The CERB is a simpler program to administer and provides income support to far more workers in need than EI would have. Still, the gaps remain.

A couple of weeks ago, I spoke to the House finance committee and shared my frustration that hundreds of thousands of workers are denied supplementary unemployment benefits under the CERB. This is money set aside by employers that would normally top up unemployment benefits, but which cannot be paid out under the current rules of the CERB program.

To call this restriction absurd would be an understatement. Unifor has launched a national campaign to fix it. I strongly encourage this committee to join us in calling on ministers Morneau and Qualtrough to address this loophole in the CERB program. This is the immediate challenge.

The bigger challenge is that of developing a more inclusive, equitable and responsive EI system once and for all, an EI system that is one part of a basic guaranteed floor of income support for those in need. Over the coming months, our EI system will once again be tested. Millions will see CERB claims expire and will look to re-enter the EI rolls. Many won't be eligible. We need to make immediate changes to the EI program to ensure CERB claimants aren't left to fend for themselves. If we don't do this, we risk a second wave of economic panic as people find it impossible to make ends meet and then default on their bills. This is not something the economy can handle at this time, especially as provinces continue to ramp up their reopening efforts.

The Canada emergency wage subsidy is another important tool to help bring workers back onto payrolls. However, recent reports indicate that only 10% of the $76 billion set aside for the program has been spent. Clearly, employers have been reluctant to apply for the program, which we also know anecdotally from the experiences of our own members. Some of the large employers we negotiate with have been dragging their feet on applying for the wage subsidy. In other cases, however, the program simply does not provide enough of an incentive for employers to apply.

By the time applications opened in late April, many employers had already laid off workers by the hundreds of thousands. It was simply too late. Now employers are looking at the cost of bringing workers back under the subsidy and wondering why they should pay health insurance premiums, pension contributions and payroll taxes out of pocket just to keep workers on paid leave.

There have also been problems with eligibility. Employers in the broader public sector, including our members in universities, colleges and municipal transit authorities, are not eligible even though they have expressed interest in the program. Finance Canada recently issued a call for feedback on the program, and Unifor has urged the government to revamp the program by expanding eligibility and covering workers' health insurance premiums and other non-taxable contributions.

All told, our income security policies in Canada need a major rethink. This obviously includes EI and the wage subsidy program, but our understanding of income insecurity has to extend well beyond that. This crisis has shone a spotlight on the low pay and increasingly precarious working conditions many workers have been forced to bear over the last few decades. It has also brought into clear view the gendered pay divisions of care and service work and how deeply undervalued this work is.

Unifor would like to see continued progress on implementing deep and lasting labour law standards reform, including a new federal minimum wage of at least $15 an hour and permanent paid sick days amongst other changes. The provinces must follow suit.

We recognize too that income security has as much to do with employment as it does with other affordability issues such as housing and rent, transit and mobility, drug coverage and child care. These matter as much to a seamless economic restart plan today as they do to a developing vision for a better, fairer Canada tomorrow. This is not a time for Canada to think small. This is a time to bring our best ideas to the table, ideas such as universal pharmacare, universal child care, a four-day work week, ideas like these that enable us to reverse course on rising job market precariousness. These are ideas that Unifor will be raising in more detail over the coming weeks as we unveil a comprehensive framework for Canada's economic recovery.

If anything, this pandemic has shown us that lack of government investments and dependency on global markets for essential goods and services can only backfire during a time of crisis. Whether it is for PPE, food or critical products like zero-emission vehicles, we need to rebuild our domestic supply chain strategically to strengthen the economy, protect the environment and stabilize jobs. This means a more active, dynamic and engaged government, a government working in the public interest, a government that is willing to be an active economic player, one that is ready to roll up its sleeves and chart a path to generate economic activity and good jobs, and not simply slash taxes, sign terrible trade deals and then hope that private industry comes to the pump.

Workers in Canada deserve better than that. Let's use this crisis as an opportunity to change how we approach industrial development, one that puts workers in Canada first. Unifor stands ready to help.

Thank you. I look forward to your questions.

3:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

Thank you very much, Mr. Dias.

Next we're going to go to the United Steelworkers.

Mr. Neumann, I'm advised that your sound quality isn't great. Let's start with you, and I think you indicated that if we are having trouble with interpretation, Mr. Lemieux also has a copy of your remarks. Let's see how we get along. I may have to interrupt you if we stumble on translation.

You have the floor, Mr. Neumann.

3:25 p.m.

Ken Neumann National Director for Canada, National Office, United Steelworkers

Good afternoon, everyone. I'm Ken Neumann, the national director of the Steelworkers. With me is Dominic Lemieux, our Quebec director. We will take five minutes each.

I want to thank the committee for the invitation to speak with you today. We have spoken to the finance committee on the government's response to the COVID-19 pandemic and we are happy to deliver a message to this committee as well.

Like so many Canadians, our members are deeply impacted by the current situation. Steelworker members work in every sector of the economy. They are front-line health care workers, industrial, forestry and manufacturing workers, miners, security guards and university workers. Each of these sectors has been affected in different ways, from mass layoffs for some, to the desperate scramble for PPE by our members on the front line, to say nothing of the horrors faced by our members who work in long-term care.

The medieval conditions our elders have been subjected to are nothing new. COVID-19 merely exposed what happens when long-term care is left out of the country's strategy for universal health care. We believe this situation has to change and the federal government should take charge by including long-term care in the Canada Health Act.

Just last week our members of the basic steel production met via Zoom to focus on what must happen to ensure a secure future for an industry that was once owned in Canada by Canadian companies but now is entirely foreign-owned. Some of our steel plants are shuttered or close to it while infrastructure like bridges is being built—

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

Excuse me, Mr. Neumann. It looks like we are unable to provide interpretation with sound of that quality. Is it still an option to hand your script to Mr. Lemieux?

3:30 p.m.

National Director for Canada, National Office, United Steelworkers

Ken Neumann

Sure. I'm fine with Mr. Lemieux taking it.

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

Mr. Lemieux, you have the floor.

3:30 p.m.

Dominic Lemieux Director, District 5 - Québec, United Steelworkers

Good afternoon, everyone.

I'll take it from here, but you should know that Mr. Neumann's notes are in English and that my mother tongue is French.

First, I would like to thank you for hosting the United Steelworkers at the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities.

Today, I will address two specific situations that affect our members. A number of USW members have met with you over the past two years on Parliament Hill to discuss the protection of pensions and benefits in times of bankruptcy. In fact, we have met with more than 225 members of Parliament and senators on Parliament Hill in Ottawa to bring this situation to your attention.

Over the past few years, our retirees have experienced literal horror stories when their companies sought the protection of the Companies' Creditors Arrangement Act or went bankrupt. We need only think of what happened to Atlas Stainless Steels in Sorel-Tracy a few years ago, or Sears Canada in Mabe, Montreal, or the White Birch Paper plant in Quebec City, and, more recently, a company on the North Shore—

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

Excuse-me, Mr. Lemieux.

Can you check to see if you are on the French channel?

We'll get better interpretation if you are on the French channel.

3:30 p.m.

Director, District 5 - Québec, United Steelworkers

Dominic Lemieux

I am on the French channel. I could close it, maybe that would make things easier.

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

No, please stay on the French channel.

Madam Clerk, am I asking the wrong question?

3:30 p.m.

The Clerk of the Committee Ms. Marie-France Lafleur

I've been told that maybe the microphone is on the wrong side.

Mr. Lemieux, your microphone may not be on the right side. We could hear you well earlier, but we're having a hard time hearing you now.