Human Resources Committee on Feb. 25th, 2020

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

I'm sorry. It might be the lack of capacity up here; the hamster took the day off and the wheel is by itself. Could you please let me know, is it MP Young's proposal with Mr. Vaughan's amendment or Ms. Gazan's amendment or her motion? Some of us can't compute.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

We are now debating an amendment put forward by Ms. Gazan to the motion of Ms. Young.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Can someone read it out again?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

That all of the words after the word “That” be replaced with the following:

That, in recognition of the fact that nearly 80% of Indigenous Peoples in Canada live in urban, rural and norther communities; be it resolved that pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee undertake a study to investigate and make recommendations on the challenges and systemic barriers facing Indigenous People and indigenous housing providers in northern, urban and rural communities across Canada; that this study focus on urban, northern and rural providers and identify the gaps in the federal government's current policies in addressing homelessness and the precarious housing crisis facing Indigenous Peoples in urban, rural and northern communities across Canada; and that pursuant to Standing Order 109, the committee request that the government table a comprehensive response to the report.

That's the amendment that is before the committee.

Mr. Vaughan.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

I'm happy to work with the member opposite to make sure that her wording drives this agenda. I think that's an important thing to recognize. Her language is in fact driving the operative clauses in this motion.

I would like to add two points. One, the UN rapporteur on housing has asked for this country to respond to a clear need in this area. I think that this motion addresses the call to action from the UN rapporteur on housing. As well, we had a gathering of urban indigenous housing providers in Ottawa just two weeks ago, who also put forth this call for the government to address what is clearly a gap in the national housing strategy, and in fact in indigenous housing policy that is historic in this country.

This is a great motion. I think it sets us in a position to start building on some of the success of the national housing strategy, but clearly it allows us to address what is a long-standing need in this country and a long-standing gap in housing provisions. I think that making this a priority sends a clear signal that this Parliament is serious about solving this crisis.

I will note that in Ontario, the number is 87% of indigenous people who live in urban and rural areas, including in the north of Ontario. In every single major city, we're seeing a significant overrepresentation of indigenous peoples in the point-in-time homeless counts, whether on the street, sleeping rough or in shelters or precarious housing.

Finally, I think the other issue which has to be mentioned is that the inquiry into missing and murdered indigenous women clearly lays this challenge at the feet of the federal government to resolve. I don't think we would have had the astonishingly awful numbers and the tragedy, which this country has to wear with shame, if we had had a stronger housing policy in this area. It's an area of clear federal responsibility. Other parts of the housing file may be disputed between different jurisdictional governments, but this one is clearly a federal responsibility, and the Supreme Court Mikisew case has also identified it as such.

I think this is an incredibly important motion. I'm thankful that the member for Winnipeg Centre has contributed to making it an even better motion, and I look forward to getting the study under way as quickly as possible.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Mr. Albas.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

I want to thank you, Mr. Chair, for clarifying this. I wanted to make sure that I know exactly what I'm going to be voting on.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Are we ready for the question?

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

It's unanimous.

Mrs. Kusie.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

That's wonderful. I think that's a real spirit of collaboration, one that is much needed here. Thank you to both individuals for working on that.

Also in the spirit of collaboration, I would like to put forward again a notice of motion brought forward, which I could move today in agreement with a fellow member of Parliament here in regard to the national housing strategy. I think Parliamentary Secretary Vaughan has spoken today of the steps that have been made relative to the national housing strategy. I commend them for heeding the first recommendation of CMHC's three recommendations of moving forward on further evaluation of first nations housing.

Considering that spirit of wanting to provide effective programming and ensuring that the programming follows its intention, which was to be beneficial to the many Canadians in need whom it was supposed to serve, I can't think of a better way to do that than to support the motion of Mr. Long:

That the committee undertake a study of the effectiveness of distributing funds through the National Housing Strategy, and any barriers which may be preventing the distribution of funds to developers.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

I certainly have seen, in my short time as the shadow minister for families, children and social development, that the problem is largely a supply problem. As I said to Parliamentary Secretary Vaughan, certainly my knowledge of the housing sector and needs is nowhere near as great as his, but in the short time I have been in this position, I recognize that there is a supply problem—or this is what I am told—in addition to the necessity for more private partnerships. The reference to developers here certainly speaks to that.

In that same spirit of co-operation and evaluation, I would like to.... Chair, frankly, I am not sure if I am putting forward Mr. Long's motion or if I am putting forward my own motion, which would be identical to Mr. Long's motion, at this time.

Dan, please don't cry. I have only so much kleenex.

The motion is:

That the committee undertake a study of the effectiveness of distributing funds through the National Housing Strategy, and any barriers which may be preventing the distribution of funds to developers.

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mrs. Kusie.

Mr. Housefather.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you.

I appreciate the spirit of Mrs. Kusie's kind motion.

I just want to go back to the previous motion, Chair. I just want to make sure we all understood that we adopted an amendment, but we never came back to the principal motion. Did you rule that the amendment had simply replaced the principal motion and, as a result, we didn't need to have a vote on the principal motion?

I think that, before Mrs. Kusie's motion goes forward, we should make sure that we did adopt the previous motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

I think he's right and I am wrong.

We adopted the amendment, so I think we now need to vote on the main motion, which looks an awful lot like the amendment.

Is there any further discussion on the main motion?

Ms. Gazan.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Would this be a time that I could suggest a small amendment?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Of course, yes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I just have a small recommendation, that the committee undertake a study of the effectiveness of the programs in the National Housing Strategy—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Ms. Gazan, we're turning into knots a little bit here. We have now reverted to the motion that you amended.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Oh, sorry.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

I made the mistake of calling a vote on the amendment but not completing the main motion, so that's where we are now.

I'm hoping this will move quickly.

Ms. Young.

[Kate Young, Liberal, London West, ON]

If I can just try to clarify, I'd like to thank the committee for accepting my notice of motion with the amendments. I'm so glad that we were able to work with the NDP to make sure that the motion is fulsome and does what I think we all want, in the spirit of collaboration. I'm glad, in a minority Parliament, to be able to work across party lines to get the best wording for the motion. I'm very happy with the motion as it stands now with the amendments. I hope that we'll be able to approve that motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Are we ready to vote on the main motion?

(Motion agreed to)

We now have a motion before us presented by Mrs. Kusie.

We have Mr. Albas on that motion.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

I wanted to simply say that MP Kusie should not sell herself short. I'm sure Mr. Vaughan is quite capable, as is she.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Mr. Long.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to MP Kusie for also recognizing that the motion is important. One of the reasons I wanted to bring that motion forward was that I certainly have a lot of developers or proponents in my riding who are frustrated, because, especially through the co-investment fund, there are monies available there through CMHC but they're having trouble grabbing those monies, pulling those monies down. I have individual proponents who have had a long application process, had to spend money. From a federal government perspective, I think it's prudent for us to look at how we can streamline that, how we can make that program available to developers who need it. I think CMHC is also looking for areas where they can improve that.

I thank you for bringing that forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Madame Chabot.