Human Resources Committee on Feb. 25th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Good afternoon, everyone. I see a quorum, and it is 3:32.

Welcome to meeting number two of the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities.

Today we have committee business. There are a couple of preliminary matters that I would like to raise with you.

I understand that all of you have received by email, from the clerk of the committee, notification of order in council appointments. These order in council appointments have been made by the Governor in Council. They will be published in the Canada Gazette.

This committee has the option of reviewing those appointments. With each of the notifications you received, there was an indication of when the time expires for the conduct of any review that we might undertake. I bring that to your attention. We don't require a decision on it now. I bring it to your attention just in case there is a will to do that.

The second preliminary matter that I want to raise with you is in connection with the supplementary estimates. As you know, each committee may consider and report the votes on supplementary (B)s. The deadline for that is March 23. I expect that there may be some will to have an examination of those.

Do you have a question, Mr. Albas?

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

I just had a question about the order in council, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Yes.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Quickly, so we don't distract from the schedule, we can make it known now that we want to have a particular order in council appointment person come in. Is it possible to do that through a notice of motion over the break week next week? I would greatly appreciate the flexibility. What's the mechanism you need to be able to work with the clerk on it?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Andrew Wilson]

I can speak to that.

Each of the order in council nominations that were sent to members has an expiry date. As long as they're invited before the committee before that date, then, yes, absolutely, we can receive notice of that next week.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Good. I just want to make sure I'm working productively with both the chair and the clerk.

Thank you.

[The Clerk]

You're welcome.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Albas.

Now we're in committee business, so it's over to you, folks.

Ms. Young.

[Kate Young, Liberal, London West, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all of our colleagues for being here today. This feels like the very first meeting of the committee.

I'd like to put a notice of motion on the table.

I'd like to move this motion. The motion is as follows:

That the committee undertake a study to investigate and make recommendations on the challenges and systemic barriers facing Indigenous people and Indigenous housing providers in northern, urban and rural communities across Canada; that this study focus on urban, northern and rural providers and examine the roles government and non-governmental organizations play in existing housing services supports; and that the committee report its findings to the House.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Young.

The motion is in order.

Mr. Albas, please.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

I certainly hope that we can work on this committee as productively as possible. I do recognize that MP Young is.... Hitting this right off the starting line is a good definition of productivity.

Mr. Chair, there have been a lot of different proposals here. Rather than voting a particular proposal down, I was hoping that perhaps we could have a discussion as to where different members are in order to see if there is some common ground on some particular issues, and then maybe we could choose one. We have many competing ones.

Unfortunately, by moving the motion, as has been done.... Again, I understand the intent is to get something on the table. It just may happen that someone may want to do your study and not one of the other ones first. In voting against this, perhaps they may not have that option.

We can adjourn debate on this particular motion and then have the member come forward with it later, if she wants to. Again, I respect the fact that the member has the right to do so, but I'd like to see if we could have some discussion as to some of the competing ideas that members may have for the committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Go ahead, Ms. Young.

[Kate Young, Liberal, London West, ON]

Could we not have some discussion on this motion and get some feedback on it? I understand there may be some people who have some amendments to the motion, but I'd like to explain why I want to put this motion on the table, if that's possible.

It's quite clear that we all, as parliamentarians, need to address the issue of indigenous homelessness in our communities. I would expect it's a concern for all of us. I come from London, Ontario, which is a community of nearly 400,000 people in southwestern Ontario. We have three neighbouring indigenous communities. The city is challenged, like so many others, with the rapid increase in the number of individuals experiencing homelessness. Of these, an even higher proportion identify as indigenous—29% of London's homeless population identify as indigenous. The city has been working with an indigenous-led community plan focused on solving indigenous homelessness through a culture-first, housing-first model. I believe that our government can learn from this model.

London is the 11th-largest designated community in Ontario, but it is home to the third-highest percentage of the population that identifies as indigenous. I think you can see why I find this to be such an important topic for my community and for this committee as well.

The UN special rapporteur examined the right to housing of indigenous peoples and recognized the right to adequate housing to be interdependent with and indivisible from the rights and legal principles set out in UNDRIP. Homelessness for indigenous people is unique from non-indigenous people, because available resources are often ill-suited to respond to their needs. As an example, sometimes housing is provided through charities tied to churches that were responsible for some of the trauma they experienced. We need to look at the problem of indigenous housing with its own lens, and that's what I'm asking for today.

The term “indigenous” refers to first nations, Métis and Inuit. They are distinct peoples, with their own cultures, rights and relationships with the Crown. Improving indigenous housing is a priority for the national housing strategy, but I think the national housing strategy is a part that we need to focus on as far as indigenous housing is concerned. That's why I think it's important for this committee to take a look specifically at this issue.

I think MP Gazan has something to suggest for my motion, if she'd like to present that.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Young.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Ms. Gazan, we'll get to you next. Mr. Albas is on the list, and then you.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Again, I totally understand where MP Young is coming from. My request was more out of a spirit of working together. Rather than going head-deep into a very important issue to MP Young.... I have first nation communities in my riding as well. However, in the spirit of a minority government, the government cannot continue to act as if it has a majority. When someone says, “Perhaps we can discuss and hear different competing priorities so we can see if we have some consensus, and we might bypass this”.... While I know that the member is passionate about it, jumping into it head-deep really doesn't work. I was hoping to see if the member would consider...because the only thing we can do at this point is to either adjourn debate or modify it.

I'd like us to have a discussion about which subjects we might have some interest in, rather than jumping first into something where I have just a yes-or-no button.

I'll just ask the member again. Would she consider adjourning debate on this? She can bring it back at any time. Then maybe we can have a discussion not on her motion and its substance, but just on where the parties are at. I'd appreciate the courtesy.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you.

Ms. Gazan.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you.

Thank you again for your grace. I'm still learning.

I did have some recommended amendments. I want to thank the honourable member across the way for proposing this in the first place, but I wanted to make some amendments, so it would state:

That, in recognition of the fact that nearly 80% of the Indigenous Peoples in Canada live in urban, rural and northern communities; pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), that the committee undertake a study to examine the gaps in the federal government's current policies in addressing the homelessness and precarious housing crisis facing Indigenous Peoples in urban, rural, and northern communities; that the committee seek the advice and expertise of Indigenous housing and homelessness service providers in urban, rural, and northern communities across Canada; and that pursuant to Standing Order 109, the committee request that the government table a comprehensive response to the report.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Ms. Gazan, that wasn't an amendment to a motion but rather an entirely new motion that you had given notice of before. We're going to deal with or adjourn debate on the current motion, and then you're free to bring that one forward.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Sure.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Mr. Vaughan.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

I think that is workable as an amendment that modifies this and adds to the depth of the work that's being proposed. I don't think it stands in contradiction to it. I would see it as “friendly”, so I think we can wordsmith that into our—

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, while I appreciate that we all will have an opinion on something, you've already ruled that it's out of order. If the member wants to put forward a motion to challenge the chair, I'm sure he can do it. Again, you've already said it substantially changes the motion.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

We'll take the conversation—