Human Resources Committee on May 1st, 2020

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you.

The topic of tourism workers comes up often. We know that they had access to the Canada emergency response benefit, or CERB, but these workers found themselves in a black hole with EI. They're very worried and are wondering how they will be able to become eligible for another period of EI.

We'd like to know whether this issue will be addressed and resolved. Will they be eligible for EI benefits in the future?

I'll conclude by asking a question about pension funds, which I asked to the officials who were with us this morning.

We know that some businesses will make it through and others will struggle. Unfortunately, some will go bankrupt. Workers could see their pension plans affected. La Presse had an article this morning on this topic regarding Resolute Forest Products.

We want the federal government to make sure that if a company goes bankrupt, the pension plans will be protected and will considered priorities. How are you working with the Department of Finance on this matter?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Please provide a quick response, Minister.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Thank you for that question.

In terms of a follow-up on whether there's going to be requalification, I will say that this is an evolving situation. You've seen the measures that our government has implemented. We continue to respond to the situation as it evolves in order to protect workers. We want to, of course, give a restart to all those companies. Tourism is a big sector. We will continue to look at the situation.

I appreciate your concern with respect to the pension funds. You know that in my previous ministry as minister of seniors, this is something that was very important to me. I will say that we will continue to work across ministries in order to do the best we can to protect seniors.

Some of the initiatives that we implemented as a government were very important, for example, rolling back the age of eligibility for the OAS and the GIS. That gave seniors two years of extra funds. There was also the $100 million for the new horizons for seniors program. These are all programs that support seniors.

I hear very clearly what you are saying, and I want to let you know that we absolutely want to protect seniors.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Minister.

Next, we have the New Democrats.

Mr. Duvall, you have six minutes.

[Scott Duvall, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister. I appreciate your being here, and I hope that you and your family are safe.

One of the issues you mentioned that I want to touch on is the Canada emergency wage subsidy. Some employers want to apply and have gone to their workforces, but they're threatening the unions that if they do not allow them to open up their contracts, abusing their seniority rights and work schedules, then they will not apply.

Are you aware of this, and is this one of the criteria that is being allowed, or is any action being taken?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Scott, thanks for your good wishes at the beginning. I should say, “MP Duvall”. In Hamilton, we have a relationship here.

I'm not fully understanding your question. Are you saying that they're applying for CERB but are not getting CERB, or are you talking about the subagreements?

[Scott Duvall, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

I'm referring to the wage supplement.

Companies are saying that they want to apply, but the condition for the unions is, “If you don't allow us to open up your basic agreement, we will not apply.” Are you aware of that?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

No, that matter has not been brought to my attention. Having said that, it may have been brought to the attention of the finance or the employment minister. For me, as you know, the focus is health and safety. With respect to the Minister of Employment, it's CERB, and with respect to the wage subsidy, it would be finance and business.

[Scott Duvall, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

I'm just bringing that to your attention, Minister.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Very good. I'll follow up with you on that.

[Scott Duvall, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Yes, because it is a labour problem. Collective agreements should be abided by.

The next one I want to touch on is what our last speaker from the Bloc touched on.

Many financial advisers have given out warnings and have said that after this recovery stage, if we ever get out of it, many companies will go bankrupt. In the media, we've already had some financial advisers warning people and companies that the easiest way to stay afloat is to file for bankruptcy.

Knowing that there could be a spike in all these bankruptcies coming forward to get out of that debt, are we taking any action to protect workers? As the legislation is written, these would leave workers behind, not only on pensions but also on severance payments, termination payments and vacation pay. Most of the people who are on EI now will have had it run out.

If these companies do go bankrupt and they claim bankruptcy—we know this is going to happen—what are we doing to support the workers? Are we looking to change the legislation on bankruptcy protection and put workers first?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Thanks, MP Duvall, for that important question.

I would say this is a situation that is evolving continuously. What we have done as a government is we've put in place targeted measures. For example, CERB was for those individuals and families who went from a paycheque to nothing; they needed to put food on the table and they needed to pay rent, so that's what we have done.

As we move through the process, in terms of protecting, we are continuously looking at anyone who falls through the cracks, at those individuals who need more assistance.

On the point you're raising, I would say that the measures we have implemented have been very specific, with the intention of trying to help companies survive this, so that when recovery comes, they can recover. That's why we have the implementation of the wage subsidy. We want companies to get through this. The federal government is providing 75% of wages to employees. The reason we're doing this is that we want that company to get through this difficult time.

The other measures we've taken are with respect to rental supports, liquidity and loans for small businesses. They can borrow up to $40,000 and have 25% of that—$10,000—forgiven. All of these initiatives are about tackling the very thing you're talking about, which is trying to keep businesses going so that those workers will have work and so those people who have dedicated so much of their effort to creating a business are going to be supported in the recovery stage to get that business to come back.

[Scott Duvall, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Minister, what I'm saying, though, is that we know there's going to be a spike for business. Does the government have any plans to start protecting workers and not so much the businesses to keep them afloat? If the government is not keeping them afloat and they can't be afloat, what is the government doing to protect the workers from going into a second stage of harmful hurt? This is very serious. Will you advocate for putting workers on top in a bankruptcy protection?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Scott, I know this is something you have advocated for a long time. You and I have had many conversations about this. I appreciate those conversations.

This is what I would say. You and I are on the same page in terms of protecting the worker. We want to ensure, at the end of the day, that workers who have committed years of service are protected. Having said that, with respect to the superpriority, which is something you've advocated for, I have concerns about that particular approach.

However, there has been a commitment that I have made to you that we are going to continue to work on this. In fact, in the last budget, there was money set aside so we could continue to work on this. This is in addition to this pandemic that we've hit now, and I look forward to continuing to work with you on this matter. It's not specifically my portfolio, but as you know, it's a matter that's very important to me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Minister, and thank you, Mr. Duvall.

Next we have the second round, with Ms. Jansen for five minutes, please.

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

Thank you, Ms. Tassi. I appreciate your being here. I have a question in regard to seniors homes and health care workers.

Reports have shown that around 79% of deaths from COVID-19 have been in seniors homes for those living in long-term care facilities. Here in B.C., health care workers regularly move between facilities. Just down the road from me is a senior care facility that felt compelled to ban those health care workers who were being sent to their location, in part because the local health authority had assigned only two face masks and two sets of gloves for the month.

Clearly, this sort of PPE rationing is dangerous not only for patients, but also for care workers. Do you feel that this rationing of PPE for caregivers is an acceptable practice, yes or no?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

As you can appreciate, long-term care facilities and how they are managed is a provincial jurisdiction.

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

I'm talking about the PPE, sorry.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Yes. The federal government has committed $2 billion to purchase and distribute PPE among the provinces and territories to provide those workers in health care and long-term care with the supports they need.

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

So it's not acceptable to ration PPE?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

At this stage we are amassing as much personal protective equipment as we possibly can to reach the needs that are there. I know that the Minister of Public Services and Procurement—

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

I understand that Ms. Thornton, who is in charge of the PPE stockpile, was not even sure of how much PPE was in the stockpile at the beginning of this pandemic. Considering the shortages we've been having across Canada for health care workers, which obviously puts them in serious danger, what grade would you give PHAC on pandemic preparedness?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

In response to the issues that have been raised with me, there are a couple of things.

First, we need to know what PPE is needed. I think PHAC has been very good with that, giving guidance as to what is needed for protection. Second, our government understands this. We want those front-line workers protected, absolutely, which is why not only did we invest $2 billion to get that PPE to protect those workers, but we've also introduced a mobilization fund whereby companies are coming forward and providing PPE—

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

Yes, I was noticing that here in my riding. They are asking businesses to come forward with their PPE because there was nothing in the stockpile.

I'm wondering about the labour standards in regard to this. Do you think the federal government needs to adjust its labour standards and requirements for those working in long-term care facilities during the pandemic to ensure the protection of both their workers and those living in long-term care facilities, yes or no?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

In long-term care, work refusals and workplace safety are governed by provincial laws. On the federal level, we have the Canada Labour Code, and that applies to all federally regulated workers. If a worker goes into a situation and says the workplace isn't safe, they can undertake a process to ensure they are never forced to work in a dangerous work site.