Thank you.
I have a couple of thoughts. Particular observations and components of the report are needed that relate directly to urban, rural and northern. My experience within the housing sector tells me that the construction timelines in the north require an approach that is different. The land values and some of the economic challenges of rural Canada are very different from urban, and also the land costs are very different in urban space, plus the multinational nature of the urban population is also a challenge to be reckoned with.
I would support splitting them into three distinct streams with distinct recommendations, but I also think the strength of this program will be made more profound if it's all included under one program. I would structure it in four ways: I would have general commonalities, and then specific recommendations around the urban, rural and northern dimensions, in terms of four distinct sections.
Secondly, I agree with Ms. Gazan in terms of the PBO report. It left out provincial transfers and didn't get into some of the social supports that need to be integrated within a housing system. While the PBO report was helpful, I wouldn't rely on it as a foundational document, because it doesn't cover the full scope of the testimony we heard.
From my perspective, in terms of where emphasis needs to be placed in helping the ministers responsible to deliver this program, we really need to have a firm understanding of the scale of the problem we're trying to address across all three sectors, what the populations are in all three sectors, if that's possible, and also a very firm, very principled and very strong statement about it being indigenous led, indigenous designed and indigenous delivered, and the importance of this program being standalone. While it may rely on CMHC for some expertise that it can bring in house, it is important that it be a standalone program in the same way that the AFN, the ITK and the Métis Nation are separate and distinct governing bodies.
I think we heard very clearly, especially from Mr. Swain, how critical it is for it to be an indigenous-led, indigenous-designed and indigenous-delivered program. That emphasis can't be understated, otherwise we will have failed in our mission.
As well, in terms of Mr. Kent's advice of submitting some details around evidence that we have access to in our notes or in testimony that might have been delivered to our offices away from the committee, because actually a lot of people have been following this online, if we could submit to all of us so that we can make sure we're all working from the same pages when we get back, it would be very helpful for the committee administrator to share the written submissions that come.
The last thing I'll say on this is that we had testimony, advice and observations and understandings from treaty-rights or treaty-holding organizations, as well as on-reserve housing programs. They are served by other programs in very distinct and very intentional ways, and we need to be careful to make sure we understand and adhere to the clear testimony that came from those people, particularly working in the urban spaces, about how far away from accessing those dollars, urban, rural and northern communities are. If we conflate them, we will end up doing an immense disservice to the 87% of indigenous people who live off reserve.
The program was meant to focus entirely on off-reserve experiences and modern treaty experiences in the distinct way they are not served by the three NIOs, and I think that's the whole point of the study. I can't overstate that enough, having looked at it for a couple of years now.