Evidence of meeting #16 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was data.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Bloc
Louise Chabot Bloc Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
I'd like to talk about the Parliamentary Budget Officer's analysis and report. Questions were asked about what these people had to work from. They talked about data collection and the 2016 census. All of the analyses may not be relevant to our report, but I have a problem with hearing that it's anecdotal or that it's not serious. I would remind you that the Parliamentary Budget Officer is providing this information at our request, is independent and has a role to play in informing us as parliamentarians.
It seems to me that we have something to work with. Our analysts, who do an extraordinary job, allow us to prepare for the issues discussed in committee. The last document, for our witness today, deals with issues related to testimony we've heard previously. There may be parts of this report that need to be linked to aspects of the testimony that struck us.
Liberal
Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON
Thank you, Chair.
As I was listening to the questions and answers today, I thought it was very interesting when Mr. Vaughan asked the officials about how much control we have when the money flows to the province and how that money gets spent on what was originally intended. I thought the answer was very interesting. Also, I think the fact that they can't get relevant information from the provincial governments is very telling.
I remember that Mr. Vaughan made a comment that perhaps—I don't want to speak for him, so he's free to correct me if I'm wrong—we should put more of a leash on the funding as prescribed. This is of interest, because we've heard many times from a few premiers calling for leash-free infrastructure funding or all kinds of funding. I think the study can perhaps shed some light and provide some recommendations to government in that respect.
I just want to highlight that part. I thought that was a very interesting finding from today's testimony.
Conservative
Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC
I'm just going to reiterate my point.
While the Liberal members seem to be focused on what the provincial governments are doing, we are federal MPs, and what's very clear from what we're seeing is that we don't even have enough information on what our own level of government is doing. That is where we have responsibility.
We can say to the provinces all day long, “Well, you need to do a better job because we can't do our job, because we don't know what you're doing.” The fact is, irrespective of a Conservative or Liberal government, there's a lot of housecleaning that needs to be done on behalf of indigenous Canadians, to ensure that our taxpayer dollars are being used effectively for the well-being of all Canadians, and that 0.8% and 0.7% and $500 million or so referenced over 10 years in the PBO report is not sufficient. I think all of us will agree on that.
Starting to go down this pathway where we look at gaps in the report because of the data that PBO was given by our federal public service and that data not being sufficient—per Mr. Turnbull's points—goes back to the primary point. We don't know what the government is doing on behalf of people. We want to put a report together that's going to make a measurable difference in the lives of indigenous Canadians living in rural and remote areas especially.
NDP
Leah Gazan NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Thank you for your comments, Mr. Vis.
As the only indigenous person on this committee—I'm going to use that card—I'm going to tell you that it is not working.
We have a lot of diversity as indigenous people around the country, including jurisdictional diversity on and off reserve, in terms of how things are funded. We also have cultural diversity around the country. What works for the Mi'kmaq out east probably won't work for indigenous nations in the Prairies. We have that cultural diversity. I absolutely think that there are differences between regions.
I am very concerned that we're not looking at whether money for housing is actually reaching people. This has been disastrous in Manitoba with the provincial government. We need to find ways to make sure that whatever government is in place, if the federal government is giving housing dollars, they actually make it to people. I'll give you an example and I'll leave it at this.
Our community just built a teepee village—it's like -51°C here—because our money for housing is totally inadequate and is not getting to people. Now we're putting up teepee villages, right in my riding, down the street from where I live. This is critical. This is our responsibility. This is looking at how jurisdictions can work together—or not work together—to make sure people don't die on the street. I've had a couple of deaths in the last couple of weeks because we get into this banter. I just need money to get to people so they don't die. That's where it's at. It is not working.
I just want to put that in. It's very rare that I've been this up front in committee, but I can tell you, that conversation is a critical part of the discussion to save lives.
Liberal
Adam Vaughan Liberal Spadina—Fort York, ON
I'm going to leave it there. I don't care which level of government; it's failed—both sides—in terms of the situation. That's right.
Liberal
Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON
Adam, you have to lower your mike.
I didn't hear what you had to say.
Liberal
Adam Vaughan Liberal Spadina—Fort York, ON
I said that I'm just going to leave it there. Both orders of government have tragically failed urban, rural and northern housing needs for indigenous people. Leah's final comment is enough for me. Let's write the report and get it done.
Liberal
Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON
Yes, I was going to say the same thing to MP Gazan.
I think we're on the same page. I don't think that there's a partisanship being played here. If the recommendation comes out that we have to put more restrictions, more conditions, more time frames to make sure that the money flows to who needs it and to get these things done, let's do it. Let it be in our recommendations.
I don't want to be misunderstood. It's not to defend the government or put the blame on other governments; no, that's not it. It's just, going forward, as a function of this committee, to give recommendations to the government of what it should do. If it's to, say, give a timeline that it has to deliver this money or get this built, and everybody agrees to it, once the money starts to flow, let's build them. That was my point.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sean Casey
Colleagues, I do have a few other things that I was hoping to get through. I don't know whether we've provided clarity for the analysts or gone a little bit off the rails, but the fact is that there is another committee looking to get into this room fairly shortly. If it is the will of the committee, I would entertain a motion now for adjournment. We do have some tougher committee business at the end of Thursday's meeting after we have our briefing from ESDC.
Bloc
February 16th, 2021 / 6:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sean Casey
That's right.
Do we have consensus? Is it the will of the committee to adjourn?
I read consensus.
Thank you very much. I hope that this has provided some direction for the analysts. I anticipate that we're going to have a spirited discussion once we get a draft just the same.
We're adjourned. Thank you, colleagues. We'll see you Thursday.