Human Resources Committee on Feb. 25th, 2021

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

Yes.

[Paul Adams]

Absolutely.

[Helena Sonea]

We also fully agree.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Chabot.

Next we have Ms. Gazan, please, for two and a half minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you, Chair.

It's so nice to be at such a collegial meeting with everybody agreeing. I've never seen this, as a new member of Parliament.

MP Jeneroux, under their current form your proposed amendments do not alter the maximum entitlement of 28 weeks of compassionate care leave. Therefore, an employee who has taken 27 weeks of compassionate care leave is entitled to only an additional week after a death.

If the principal goal of the bill is to ensure that all Canadians can provide compassionate care beyond the week following death, do you have any thought of proposing an amendment that is contingent on the number of accumulated weeks of compassionate care provided prior to death?

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

Thanks, MP Gazan. Yes, it's nice to have collegial support at committee at times.

Under the original bill and how we structured it, the thinking was that if you've already spent a significant amount of time with a loved one, you then would only need generally a week or two to take care of the funeral arrangements, some of the financial considerations and those sorts of things. That's because you would have had a lot of time on the front end. In the structuring of it, not having a lot of time towards the end and then having more time post-death was the thinking of the original concept. With the proposed amendments from the parliamentary secretary and me, jointly submitted, it shifts from that “compassionate care leave” header, if you will, under part III of the labour code, to “bereavement leave”.

You're right that in compassionate leave, I think particularly caregiving is an important aspect that we don't want to lose sight of in the conversation. It really does allow that more fulsome scope of giving those two weeks to everybody, if you're a caregiver or not, for the type of leave to grieve.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you very much.

My last question is for anybody on the panel. We know that having time to grieve, making funeral preparations and even wrapping up an estate after the death of a loved one are important for the well-being of Canadians. I know that our party, the New Democratic Party, has supported Canadians on compassionate care leave in having a little extra time for these things before having to return to work after the death of a loved one.

Can you speak about the importance of care work?

[Paul Adams]

By the time my wife died, I had been deeply involved in caring for her for a long time. The moment when she died brought me into a new phase of grief, which of course started before the very end.

You then have the additional burden, as you say, of planning the funeral and winding up the estate. By the way, if you wanted time for that, you'd probably have to give somebody a year off. The important thing to say is that caregivers do have this additional state of exhaustion and building grief that is on top of what may afflict other people who are close to the person who's passed.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Gazan.

Ms. Masotti, do you want to offer a short comment?

[Kelly Masotti]

I'm going to pass this over to my colleague, Helena. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Ms. Sonea, please comment briefly, if you could.

[Helena Sonea]

We know that caregivers are that invisible workforce for Canada.

We also know that throughout COVID-19.... Some of the surveys that CCS has conducted with caregivers over the past year have told us that 85% of caregivers feel more anxious and burnt out than they felt prior to COVID.

We would certainly just want to reiterate the support for this bill.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you.

Mr. Vis is next, for five minutes.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I wasn't sure if I was going to have any more time.

I have one other question for MP Jeneroux before we wrap up very shortly.

Have you heard anything from small businesses or larger employers about the impact this might have on the day-to-day operations of their businesses? How have you sold this change to bereavement leave to employers?

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

Thanks, Brad.

I honestly haven't had to really sell it to employers. I think a lot of employers just understand the importance of supporting a loved one.

This sets the standard across the country for what employers can do. A lot of employers are generous. A lot of small businesses will often say to take all the time you need. They want to make sure you come back in a strong mental and, sometimes, physical capacity. Even though it has an impact on the work life, I would say the conversations I've had have been very understanding.

Actually, this committee did a report. Those of you who were on it in the last Parliament will remember the February 2019 report, “Supporting Families After the Loss of a Child”, which MP Long referenced. It suggested that the costs associated with employees returning to work when they're unable to do so properly are higher than the costs due to the absenteeism.

The thinking that it would be important to support the employees was certainly the testimony heard at this committee at the time.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you, Matt.

For our witnesses, do you have any final comments you'd like to share with the committee before we wrap up?

[Kelly Masotti]

I would just like to thank you for inviting us to appear today. This is such an important topic for discussion. Like the other members, I would like to encourage that this be moved through committee and the Senate quickly.

Thank you so much.

[Paul Adams]

Yes, we just want to applaud the committee, Mr. Jeneroux and all the parties for coming together.

This is a really important reform. We're so pleased to be part of this process.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Helena, do you have any final comments?

[Helena Sonea]

I'd just thank everyone very much for your time and energy. This is practical support for many Canadians diagnosed with all different types of diseases every year. It's especially important as the world shifts through our new COVID era.

Thank you so much.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. That's all for me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

The last person to pose questions will be Mr. Housefather, for five minutes.

Go ahead, sir.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I don't think I'm going to need five minutes.

I want to thank Paul, Kelly and Helena for coming before the committee.

Paul, thank you for sharing that very poignant, lovely story about Suzanne. I'm deeply sorry, even if it's four years later.

Kelly and Helena, thank you so much for the incredible work that you're doing at the Canadian Cancer Society. I've worked with you often and I really appreciate the work that you do.

Matt, I want to congratulate you. It's rare that an individual member of Parliament is able to achieve consensus on a bill and get it through the House of Commons, and hopefully, the Senate as quickly as possible to become law. Kudos to you and thank you for showing Canadians that, as opposed to the drama that they often see in question period, there are ways for committees and parliamentarians to work together, pragmatically, to achieve consensus and create a good bill. I think we're going to be doing that here today.

I just wanted to say a couple of things. First, as everybody understands, because Mr. Jeneroux has submitted a private member's bill, it's not a money bill, so we're not able to amend the bill to extend paid leave. We can only amend this bill to extend the unpaid portion of the leave. We tried to look at the way we could provide it to the most Canadians as possible. We've agreed that the best way to do it is with bereavement leave, which encompasses everybody who's losing any family member, and will also now include caregivers. Instead of a caregiver getting a certain amount of time, depending on where they were in the 28 weeks, all caregivers and all individual Canadians who lose immediate family members can get the two weeks, of which three days are paid and seven days now would be unpaid.

Secondly, Matt, I was just wondering if you would tell the story that you originally told in the House of Commons as to why this was so important to you, and why you introduced this bill.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

Thanks, Anthony.

I echo everything you've said about the drama of question period being just that kind of 50 minutes that we all experience. There's a lot of good work that happens at committees and, honestly, having Anthony reach out to us very early on, and then dealing with the minister's office, as well, has just been nothing but a smooth process in terms of getting, hopefully, a good piece of legislation out of this.

On the story, it feels like I've told it a million times but it's never one that I tire of sharing. It stems from when I first left university. I got a job at an organization here in Edmonton, and I was competitive with a number of other individuals who had been hired with me, basically five of us for two jobs. Right around that time, my grandma had dementia and Alzheimer's, and started deteriorating rapidly. My grandma and I were very close. I had the opportunity to either go and spend her final days with her or stay at work and try to climb the corporate ladder, if you will.

I ended up making a decision that I regret to this day. I stayed at work and tried to climb that corporate ladder. Unfortunately, grandma passed. I didn't get a chance to spend the time with her or say goodbye to her, but I always wondered if there was something, a way somehow, to encourage others not to have to make that decision. In knowing that there were protections in place, they wouldn't have to make those decisions in the future. These are the reasons I have really pursued compassionate care leave and bereavement leave to a level that, I think, we're close to helping out more Canadians.