Human Resources Committee on Nov. 4th, 2020

[Graham Flack]

Minister, the deadline was extended, as Ms. Chabot mentioned, further to calls from disability groups. The groups feel that the extra time will provide an opportunity to reach out to the necessary people to apply.

It's pretty tough to know exactly how many people will ultimately receive it. The whole idea is to give all those who may be eligible an opportunity to submit their applications. With all the new benefits being offered, it's pretty tough to predict how many people will end up receiving it.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

My second question is on the same topic, but it's shorter.

Unfortunately, the pandemic is ongoing. Are you considering a second support payment and have you budgeted for that?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Thank you for your question.

We haven't made a decision, but we are fully aware that our expenditures continue to rise, as in the case of persons with disabilities, so, certainly, that is a discussion we will be having.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Now I would like to talk employment insurance. I already raised this in the House.

The recent measures for greater employment insurance flexibility and the new recovery benefits were welcome; the social safety net is now stronger. You estimated the number of people who could access both employment insurance through the flexible measures and the new Canada recovery benefit.

Do those estimates still stand, or are people continuing to lose their jobs?

In the months ahead, can we expect those estimates to be revised upwards to reflect higher demand?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

That's a great question.

We estimated that roughly three million people would access employment insurance benefits. Thus far, 1.6 million have received EI benefits, and another 1.2 million have access to the other benefits. That's a total of about three million people. We had estimated that the benefits would be available to between three million and four million people, so we are below the estimate, but applications are still coming in.

Mr. Flack, did you have anything to add?

[Graham Flack]

I would point out that the numbers we put forward and the calculations we did were to help us prepare for a worst-case scenario. We had to prepare for the worst to ensure the employment insurance system could handle two or three million claimants within a few weeks, something that would normally take a year.

It is true that the numbers we have seen represent fewer claimants than in our scenario projections. So far, fewer people have transitioned to the employment insurance system. It is something we are examining, but it seems to be due to the fact that the economic situation is slightly better than anticipated.

As far as the new benefits go, the numbers are more or less in line with our estimates. All in all, we are below the number of claimants expected. We are doing an analysis to determine why exactly that is, but it's likely due to the fact that the economic situation is not as poor as assumed in our scenarios.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Chabot and Mr. Flack.

It is now over to Ms. Gazan for six minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to welcome the minister to our meeting today.

My first question relates to the fact that we know that throughout the pandemic there have been several groups that have been totally left behind. One group in particular has been the disability community, which had to wait until National AccessAbility Week at the end of May to get any sort of response from your government. This is totally unacceptable.

In addition, they had to wait until just last week—over seven months after the pandemic was declared—to receive a one-time $600 tax credit, which in fact only 40 persons with disabilities were able to access due to serious issues with the disability tax credit. Tax credits and savings plans for disabled persons are simply not good enough, and we've certainly witnessed that. The failures of this federal government to support disabled people during the pandemic should prompt a sweeping review of federal disability programs and policies in order to support disabled people, because they have been made the most vulnerable through the holes in the federal social safety net, as you have acknowledged today, Minister.

Prior to the pandemic, people in the disability community had been pushing for a guaranteed livable basic income in addition to the supports we currently have and will have in the future. Is your government open to bolstering income security programs to ensure that disabled persons can live with human rights and not legislated poverty, as affirmed in our Canadian charter? If you are open to that, what sorts of changes would you make to bolster our social security programs?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Thank you for that question, but I feel I need to correct you slightly. By the beginning of April we had taken a number of measures to ensure that our pandemic response was disability-inclusive, including appointing a COVID disability advisory group to make sure that we had lived experiences and real-time perspectives on what was going on on the ground. That group was invaluable in terms of giving us advice on our public health measures, on our community support initiatives and on a number of really important steps we took as a government.

In terms of moving forward, we have learned a big lesson from this, which many advocates have been pointing out to government for a long time, and that is around our inability to directly deliver the supports they need to Canadians with disabilities. That's why in the Speech from the Throne we committed to creating the Canada disability benefit, which is modelled after the GIS. It will be a direct income support to Canadians with disabilities. Underlying that will be a significant eligibility form in terms of how Canadians qualify for our benefits.

As I said, it's unacceptable that tax credits perform the kind of gatekeeping function, if you will, with regard to getting access to many of our programs and services, and we're going to change that.

I will also correct the member and say that it was a one-time direct payment that 1.6 million people got. They did get $600 in their bank account. Again, I know it was way overdue, but I can assure you it wasn't for lack of trying on the part of public servants, who had to create a brand new delivery mechanism to do it.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

With all due respect, Minister, you're actually not correcting me; you are actually correcting disability advocates throughout the country who have informed my question today.

My second question, Minister, is about changes to the EI system that are completely insufficient. The Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives has reported that 776,000 Canadians who access the service are now ineligible for any further federal support, and these are predominantly low-wage part-time workers and low-paid self-employed workers. Beyond this, many Canadians do not fit into our current EI programs, such as people with complex mental health issues and trauma who are unable to hold onto a full-time job, or people who have not worked or are living rough, and that certainly is very common in my riding.

We know the best deterrent to COVID-19 is frequent handwashing and being housed, and that requires having a home, so not only are the income support programs offered by your government inadequate in allowing people to follow basic health and safety guidelines set out by Health Canada, but we are also seeing a rise of first-time homelessness.

As the pandemic persists, the failure of your government to not properly invest in these basic human rights, as we are obliged to do as members of Parliament and as stipulated in our charter, is placing Canadians further at risk.

Knowing all of this, why is there nothing in the estimates to address those being left out of the EI system before this crisis gets worse?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Thank you again for your question.

When we added additional flexibilities to the EI system toward the end of September, it was with the goal of getting as many workers as possible in and give them support, access to training, working while on claim and all the benefits that system, as clunky as it is, has to offer. We created the recovery benefits, sickness benefit and caregiving benefit knowing that we wanted to support workers who weren't captured even with those flexibilities.

As a longer-term measure, our government is absolutely supportive and aims to overhaul the EI system, I'd say, and try to make it more reflective of how Canadians work today. Certainly it was tough in March to not be able to use the system to help as many people as we wanted to.

In terms of the housing piece, Minister Hussen is appearing next, and I know he'd be happy to give you more information on that. I don't think I could do it justice, but I hear you in terms of the need for income support for all Canadians and between the Canada child tax benefit, the old age security and GIS, and now our new disability support benefit, I'm hoping that we are getting there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Ms. Gazan.

We are going to Ms. Falk, please, for five minutes.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you , Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here.

In your notes you referred to the net increase of $28 billion over the 2019-20 main estimates. I am wondering if this net increase for OAS is a reflection of indexed inflation or if it is a reflection of expected changes to the program schedule.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Thank you. I'll ask Mark to answer that detail.

[Mark Perlman]

It is based on all the projections of our aging population and all of the indexing that has been given to us by the actuaries, so it is to keep up with the trends of our population.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Okay, thank you.

I think everybody around this virtual table would agree that it's critical that Canadians have access to their benefits in a timely and efficient manner. We do know that with COVID-19, this stability is all that more important.

The departmental plan mentions that the department is undergoing changes to how it delivers services to Canadians. Among these changes is moving OAS benefits to the CPP IT platform.

I'd like to discuss the service standard, particularly as that pertains to these programs. I recently had a senior's case brought to my attention. In this case, the individual had been informed by Service Canada that it could take four months to process their CPP application and another eight months, or about 240 days, for its decision on their OAS application. The timeline posted for mailed-in application and applications received at Service Canada for CPP is 120 days.

Let's also keep in mind that many, if not all, Service Canada locations have been closed for a long duration of time during this pandemic and that many rural Canadians do not have access to rural broadband and either need to mail an application in or need to attend a Service Canada office. It would be my expectation that shortening that timeline is a goal for the department.

What funds, if any, are dedicated to improving service standards for Canadians?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Your question is super-specific, so I'll turn to the officials.

[Graham Flack]

Mark, I'll get you to speak to the specific allocation we have.

Indeed, we have sought additional funds to address some of the service standard issues.

In the department pre-crisis, 100% of the processing work would have been done in processing centres. We would have had zero per cent of people working from home. We're not structured to allow people to work from home, so you are right that we did experience an interruption in the crisis as a result of the fact that we had to almost instantly equip and secure the ability of individuals to work at home. That did result in a reduction in service standards.

EI is the area I could point to where we've had real success. Our service standard is that we would pay 14 days after eligibility, 80% of the time. With the new people who have come on EI, about 90% have been paid within a couple of days of eligibility and 96% have been paid within 14 days of their eligibility, so we're greatly exceeding the service standards.

The ambition you've laid out for much faster service standards is why we are investing not only in the new systems that will allow us to do that more efficiently, but in additional people who will be hired in the department to improve the standards.

When you consider we had to displace the entire workforce to work from home, overall the service standards for the department have come back pretty well. We are trying to improve them, but I thank you for drawing it to our attention.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

You have 35 seconds for your question and answer, Ms. Falk. Go ahead.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

What funds are dedicated? I didn't hear a number.

[Graham Flack]

Part of the main estimates are $105 million in OAS service improvement and workload funds.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Flack.

Thank you, Ms. Falk.

We'll go to Ms. Young, please, for five minutes.

[Kate Young, Liberal, London West, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister Qualtrough, for appearing today before the committee.

As you know, persons with disabilities are an issue I am very concerned about, and I was honoured to serve as your parliamentary secretary for a time and was very happy to be able to work with you on that file.

You mentioned the Canada disability benefit in the throne speech, but we also heard about a robust employment strategy for Canadians with disabilities. I spoke with one of my constituents who is disabled and is really worried about finding a job after COVID. It was hard enough before COVID for people with disabilities to get that job, and now it's going to be even harder.

What does the government mean by “a robust employment strategy”?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

It's a key component of our disability inclusion plan to address barriers that so many Canadians with disabilities are facing in employment. We know from the Canadian Human Rights Commission that more than 60% of the complaints to the commission are on the grounds of disability, and half of them are in the area of employment. People are still being discriminated against in hiring, promotion and retention. That has to stop.

We are going to work with the disability community to come up with targeted measures that both support employees—we have some really good programs, and we're going to beef them up—and also address supports for employers, meaning education and talking about the business case for inclusion and how a business can benefit from disability inclusion. It's also to educate Canadians and help shift the conversation away from a charity model, which is often discussed as having to help these poor people, to an inclusion model whereby we celebrate and highlight the benefits of hiring someone with a disability, of making your business accessible so someone with a disability can shop there.

We're going to target employers, employees, businesses—the business community writ large, on all fronts—and help change the conversation around employment for people with disabilities.

[Kate Young, Liberal, London West, ON]

Minister, at the beginning of the pandemic you launched the disability advisory group, which I am told has helped you and given you invaluable advice on the lived experiences of persons with disabilities and has shaped the way you've moved forward.

What have you learned from all this? What are your big takeaways with regard to people with disabilities, and what should we be doing as a government to make sure they do not fall through the cracks, as they have in the past?