Human Resources Committee on May 25th, 2021

[Annette Gibbons]

I think your question is rhetorical.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Yes. Which—

[Annette Gibbons]

It was done under this government in 2016, I believe.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Which government plans to increase OAS by 10% for seniors over 75?

[Annette Gibbons]

It's the same.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Right. Are there many other measures that impact the income security of seniors? I think we heard today from the minister that we haven't cracked the nut or solved the problem, and there's a lot more work to do. However, does this not show a history of really trying to tackle income insecurity on a national level for seniors across the country? Is that fair to say?

[Annette Gibbons]

There have certainly been several initiatives in the last four or five years that have been focused on increasing the support system for seniors.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

In the fall economic statement, $1 billion was committed for the safe long-term care fund. What is that funding for?

[Annette Gibbons]

I'm going to ask Alexis to speak to that.

[Alexis Conrad]

The $1 billion will go to provincial governments to help with long-term care. However, it is funded through Health Canada, not through our department.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Right. Is it for infection prevention and control mostly?

[Alexis Conrad]

Yes, those kinds of things. I don't have the specifics, but we're happy to provide anything to the committee. It is generally a Health Canada transfer.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

That's it for your time, Mr. Turnbull. Thank you so much.

Ms. Chabot, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Studies have been conducted to inform the government's decision on the old age security (OAS). Have any studies been conducted on increasing this pension at age 65?

[Annette Gibbons]

I can only speak to the decision that was made and the work that we have done with respect to people who are 75 and over.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

No one asked you to conduct any study at all to find out what it might mean at 65. Is that correct?

You have a team that supports the most highly-placed elected officials, but you have not studied the possible scenarios either. Is that correct?

[Annette Gibbons]

In the Speech from the Throne, the government made a commitment to people aged 75 and over. That commitment was part of Minister Schulte's mandate letter. That's what we have been working on.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Do you have any statistics?

You talked a lot about distinctions between people who are 65 years old, some of whom are working. I don't have the exact figures in front of me. Are you aware that some of them are working because the OAS pension is not enough for them, and that sometimes, if they are able to work, they do so to make ends meet at the end of the month?

Having said that, I'm really trying to understand the situation. In our view, this is quite unique, because this program starts at a specific age. The government has rightly congratulated itself for restoring the age of eligibility for the program to 65.

Mr. Chair, I'm coming to the end of my two and a half minutes, so I will get right to the point.

Ms. Gibbons, how can you seriously justify, with numbers and data, excluding people between the ages of 65 and 74? If you don't want to include those who are 65 and over, we could look at 73 and over.

[Annette Gibbons]

As I mentioned earlier, a number of different factors were considered in making the decision. In the end, the government chose to put forward an increase in payments for those aged 75 and over.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Chabot.

Finally, we have Ms. Gazan, with the last round of questions, for two and a half minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much, Chair.

Going back to what my colleague Madame Chabot said, I have concerns about how this decision was made. I think it would be helpful to the committee if you shared the actual research and data that was used to decide to withhold any increases to those under age 75.

Going back, will the proposed long-term care standards include standards for adequate pay for care workers?

[Annette Gibbons]

The work on the standards is at an early stage, so I think it's too soon to know exactly what they will cover. The intention of the two groups doing the work is to cover both the built infrastructure as well as the processes and procedures that staff follow in providing care. Certainly, something like what the staff complement is for a certain number of seniors in a home is something—

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Just because I have one other question and I have such limited time....

I do think it's a good idea, considering the shortage of staffing, to look at making sure people have a livable wage to maybe encourage them to take that profession on.

[Annette Gibbons]

I have just one final point, if I could say it.

It's very important. The provinces, of course, are ultimately responsible for standards in care homes, so they will be—

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I have just one last question.

We know that the pandemic has been horrific in long-term care homes. I'm wondering if there are any supports that will be provided to seniors who have survived and have suffered, for example, and who, going forward, may be experiencing post-traumatic stress from their experience in long-term care.

Are there any supports that are planned for seniors?