Human Resources Committee on May 25th, 2021

[Deb Schulte, Liberal, King—Vaughan, ON]

One of the things our government will not do is pit one group against another. We made sure not only that CERB was there for youth who could not work and who were potentially unable to get the income they needed for their studies and to continue on with their education but also that seniors were able to access CERB. Even if they had their pensions, their CPP and OAS, they could still qualify for CERB as long as they had a loss of employment income because of the COVID pandemic or because they had to stay home because they were isolating because of risk factors.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Minister, with respect, you should be ashamed of the decisions in this budget. You're saying we're pitting one against the other, but these are the decisions the Liberals made. We've had hundreds of thousands of kids living at home getting approved for emergency relief, while seniors have gotten a pittance, an increase of just over $1,000 for the year over all the programs.

I shudder to think of what you're hearing from the seniors you've been talking to. What I'm hearing is that you are pitting one segment against the other.

[Deb Schulte, Liberal, King—Vaughan, ON]

I think it's really unfortunate that the seniors you're talking to have had their information twisted so that they are basically saying the youth who have lost their jobs don't deserve to be supported.

Listen, I'm the minister for seniors and not the minister for youth, but I can tell you from the youth that I know in my community that it has been very tough on them. They would normally be able to have a summer job at a local restaurant or a carnival. Normally, they would be working in the service industry, which has really shut down, and they don't have the ability now to earn the funds they need to be able to carry on with their education. There may be some who accessed it who shouldn't have, and that will be determined in time through the CRA.

Right now, we were there to support youth. We were there to support seniors, Canadians and businesses, and I'm proud that we were there to support them. That's helped us get through—

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

If you're wondering where they're getting their information from. I'll just read this quickly. It's from the National Post, a pretty reputable national news outlet. It says:

The documents show that 40,630 15-years-olds were approved for the benefit. The government paid out $81.2 million for that group. There were 92,784 16-year-olds approved, receiving nearly $186 million, and 184,576 17-year-olds received $369 million.

That's where they're getting their news from or information, as you call it.

It's concerning. It's concerning that we would not help seniors out during this crisis at the same level as we were helping out students living at home.

I'm going to switch gears just briefly on the dollar amounts you talked about, the $5 billion here and the $10 billion there that the Liberals like to gloat about. It's all printed money. It's all money that is printed, and when regimes across the world have tried to print money to get out of their fiscal crisis, it has ended poorly for society.

I am wondering if you think seniors are worried about inflation right now.

[Deb Schulte, Liberal, King—Vaughan, ON]

I think everybody's worried about inflation, but more than anything people are worried about getting through the pandemic, and they need supports to do that.

I want to go back. When I was young, I needed a job to help pay for my family. We were not well off, and we all ended up working. I was working at 15. There are a lot of young people in this country who are supporting themselves, their families and their education. You might say 15 is a little early to be supporting your education, but you need a lot of funds to live, to pay for your food and clothes. These are things that families sometimes need to rely on their younger teenagers to help with.

Cory, it's really unfortunate that you're making a judgment call that all youth are somehow in a position to have excess. That is not true and I think it's unfortunate. Maybe it's because of a different upbringing, but I can tell you that I really appreciated my job. If I had lost it when I was 15, it would have made things very difficult for me. I know that is the story of young people across the country.

Let's go back to seniors, because we are not doing one versus the other. Seniors were able to access the same supports as youth and other Canadians. If they worked, lost their income and were making over $5,000 a year, they would have been able to access benefits as well.

It is important that we are fair and are treating everybody well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Tochor.

The last committee member to ask questions is Mr. Lauzon.

Mr. Lauzon, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Madam Minister, thank you for joining us for this important study on seniors. We know that you have always been committed to seniors.

I think you'll agree with me that one of your important roles since the beginning of your mandate has been to reassure seniors, to listen to them and to work with them.

My riding has a number of private seniors' clubs. There is also the Réseau FADOQ, with whom we have had many discussions and with whom we work hand in hand. I know that you have always made your presence felt, unlike the Bloc Québécois, which is spreading misinformation, scaring seniors and causing them anxiety.

You have always been there to support seniors, Madam Minister. You provided some important statistics earlier, saying that 57% of women aged 65 to 75 were more vulnerable. You also said that 39% of widows have lower incomes. Health care spending increases by 67% at age 80, and home care increases sevenfold at age 85. The evidence-based numbers that you have shared with us are very significant.

Would you agree that the evidence shows that our election promise, delivered in budget 2021, was more likely to be focused on the most vulnerable?

[Deb Schulte, Liberal, King—Vaughan, ON]

The answer is yes. There is always more to do, but we should feel proud of the work we've done so far.

Obviously I look forward to the report and the recommendations that you're going to bring forward. I also very much look forward to my conversations with stakeholders such as FADOQ and others, so that they are able to share their perspectives as we move forward and continue to work on the issues that are of importance to seniors, while specifically making sure that we address their financial security and their needs.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Minister.

Throughout the questions today, you have mentioned several choices the government has made that have helped seniors, including direct and indirect assistance through associations.

You have a program in place called new horizons for seniors, and you have made a number of changes. In addition, you have taken the time to consult with all parties to improve it.

Can you tell us a little about the changes to the new horizons for seniors program and the process you used to arrive at those changes?

[Deb Schulte, Liberal, King—Vaughan, ON]

I want to thank all the MPs from all parties who took part last year, very early on, in giving us input on how we could improve the new horizons for seniors program. We were able to incorporate it so that we have better distribution across the country, making sure that those in rural and remote communities have an opportunity to get projects. I want to thank all members of Parliament for all of the work they brought forward.

The recommendations were incorporated, and they have resulted in over 5,000 projects across Canada that have addressed those in rural and remote areas, those who are more vulnerable and those in different cultural groups. We have a much better distribution of projects across the country to help support seniors, and I'm very proud of the work that all MPs did to get those quality projects in the applications. We ended up with really excellent results across Canada.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Thank you.

You have addressed a number of issues today, but we haven't talked much about elder abuse. We have invested $50 million in initiatives to combat elder abuse. We need to ensure that all seniors are safe.

Can you tell us how the Liberal government is honouring its commitment on this issue?

[Deb Schulte, Liberal, King—Vaughan, ON]

Elder abuse in all its forms is totally unacceptable, and it is an issue that our government takes very seriously. We are working on initiatives to combat elder abuse, including strengthening the law, creating a national definition and improving data collection. This builds on the work that was already under way by the national seniors council, which examined the issue through the new horizons for seniors program. One of its elements is addressing elder abuse and raising awareness. Through budget 2021, our government will provide $50 million over five years to promote safe relationships and prevent family violence, including elder abuse.

Our government will continue working on this issue and strengthening Canada's approach to elder abuse. It's very important.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Lauzon.

Minister, that completes a little over an hour. We are very grateful to you for being with us, for bearing with us given our late start and for the very comprehensive and patient way that you responded to our questions. We appreciate your openness to receiving and being guided by the recommendations that will come from this report.

As I love to say, you are welcome to stay, but you're free to go.

[Deb Schulte, Liberal, King—Vaughan, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Colleagues, we're going to suspend for a couple of minutes just to make sure that we're all set for the second panel.

[Deb Schulte, Liberal, King—Vaughan, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair. It was a real pleasure. I always appreciate the opportunity to come and share a bit of knowledge and hear from you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Minister.

We are suspended.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

I call the meeting back to order.

Today the committee is meeting for its study of the impact of COVID-19 on seniors.

I'd like to welcome our witnesses, who will continue our discussion. We have Alexis Conrad, senior assistant deputy minister; Annette Gibbons, associate deputy minister; and Janet Goulding, associate assistant deputy minister.

Unless you have an opening statement ready, I think we're going to go right into questions.

[Annette Gibbons, Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Employment and Social Development]

We do not, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Excellent. We're going to start with Ms. Falk, for the Conservatives, for six minutes.

Ms. Falk, you have the floor.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

I'd like to thank all of you for being available today to come to our committee as we study the impact that COVID-19 has had on seniors and is having on seniors, and the reach that federal government programs have had.

The recent budget proposed to provide $400 million to create a temporary community services recovery fund for charities and non-profits. Will charities and non-profits serving seniors be eligible and/or prioritized in the program?

[Annette Gibbons]

They will certainly be eligible. I'll turn to Janet to provide a bit more on this.

[Janet Goulding, Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Income Security and Social Development Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development]

The community services recovery fund will definitely be available to senior-serving organizations that are either charities or non-profits. The program is still under design, and we're looking at how to make sure that dollars are made available to the most vulnerable Canadians to support our charitable and non-profit sector as it moves, we hope, to the post-pandemic period very shortly.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you.

Have there been conversations about what activities would be eligible for funding?

[Janet Goulding]

The new recovery fund is focused on supporting charities and non-profits that are looking to modernize, adapt or move forward with new programming or new processes that will help them move forward in the post-recovery period. We do anticipate having those details available in the coming months.