Evidence of meeting #43 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was men.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
4:30 p.m.
Bloc
Louise Chabot Bloc Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to talk about abuse. It's a pressing issue for our seniors. I can tell you that in Quebec, we now have a policy to fight abuse that was established even before the pandemic. The policy provides a definition of abuse and also protects staff members who report certain situations.
I'd like to focus more on financial abuse. What role could we handle better in terms of fraud or financial abuse?
4:30 p.m.
Board Chair and Registered Nurse, Canadian Network for the Prevention of Elder Abuse
What would be the role for reporting? I want to make sure I'm understanding the question correctly.
4:30 p.m.
Bloc
Louise Chabot Bloc Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
What I meant to say is that each province probably has its own policies to handle these issues. However, when it comes to financial fraud, the federal government could play a role. Can anything be strengthened?
4:30 p.m.
Board Chair and Registered Nurse, Canadian Network for the Prevention of Elder Abuse
Yes, absolutely. There's dependence on the financial abuser.
In frauds and scams, that abuse is coming from individuals who are strangers or are scammers in various sectors. The financial abuser is somebody who's close to the older adult they're abusing, so it's a neighbour or family or a friend.
At a federal level, I think that awareness is key. Many individuals don't necessarily know that they're being abused. They're being told that they owe this person money or that they're paying them for services. They've handed over their bank card or their credit card or they've given a power of attorney. Awareness of their rights would go a long way toward helping individuals realize that the way they're being treated and the way that their money is being taken from them is not right and needs to stop.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sean Casey
Thank you, Ms. Chabot.
Next is Ms. Gazan, please, for two and a half minutes.
4:30 p.m.
NDP
Leah Gazan NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Thank you so much, Chair.
My question is for Madam Oko.
Certainly the pandemic has shone a light on the glaring inequities and inequalities, and certainly targeted inequalities, in this country. I would say that seniors are one of the groups that have been targeted or ignored even prior to the pandemic. Had we ensured that seniors lived in dignity, we wouldn't have found ourselves in this situation in the first place. I think it relates to ageism and the idea that when you reach a certain age, you are no longer of value. They are the kinds of ideas that are associated with the concept of working—that when you are no longer working full time, you lose your value.
I was really touched by the story you were telling about caring for your mom. We've heard comments like “COVID-19 isn't too dangerous, because it's just impacting older people.” We heard a lot of shocking things like that.
Can you speak to how ageism played a role in the responses to COVID-19 and how it has impacted many of the seniors that you're talking about today?
4:35 p.m.
Chair, Family Council of Copernicus Lodge, As an Individual
It's definitely an ageism issue, and I would add that it's a gender issue, because the majority of residents who are in long-term care are women and the majority of health care providers who work in a long-term care system are predominantly women, and also racialized women or newcomers.
In terms of ageism, just [Technical difficulty—Editor] raising or escalating issues. Unfortunately, I had many discussions with the Ontario Ministry of Long-Term Care and the media and many people, and it just felt like people just didn't care. I would be giving them detailed accounts of what was going on in the homes. It always felt that my mom and the residents were being punished because they were living too long.
Even after the outbreak, with her having the bedsore, in some of the discussions I had I would hear that my mom was frail, that she has advanced dementia, that this was to be expected. Yes, it's to be expected that she has advanced dementia and that she will decline, but not to have a stage 4 bedsore and not to have declined in five months' time.
These are the kinds of conversations that I've had with many families within my home and in other homes as well: The resident has declined to the point where now they're not eating well and they're struggling and they need to be assisted with eating. The conversation is always, “Well, they're at that age,” or “It's dementia.” There's always some kind of an excuse. What I feel is that each person should be treated with dignity and have a quality of life and a quality of death. Each day should be a day of joy until that point when they are no longer living. We shouldn't be discriminating based on their age.
I've had a conversation with a doctor who said that in some cases, age discrimination goes to somebody in their sixties. I'm sorry, but I feel that somebody in their sixties is still a young person with a lot of value.
Who gets to decide? I think no one should be making that decision or making a judgment in terms of the quality of care that the person is getting.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sean Casey
Thank you very much, Ms. Oko. Thank you, Ms. Gazan.
That concludes the questions for this panel of witnesses.
Ms. Oko, your testimony touched and moved every one of us. I completely agree with Ms. Dancho that we should all be so fortunate to have an advocate like you. Your telling of your deeply personal story of your mom certainly has impacted us and has undoubtedly helped many other families in a similar situation.
Ms. Majowski, you're probably aware that another parliamentary committee has recently completed a study with respect to elder abuse. It is something that has the attention of parliamentarians, due in no small part to your advocacy and that of others in that sphere.
Thank you for the work that you're doing. Please know that it's making a difference. We very much appreciate your being with us today.
Colleagues, we're going to suspend while we bid adieu to these witnesses and do a sound check for the next witnesses to come.
We'll suspend for a couple of minutes.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sean Casey
I call the meeting back to order.
Today the committee is meeting on its study on the impact of COVID-19 on seniors.
I'd like to make a few comments for the benefit of witnesses.
When you are ready to speak, you can click on the microphone icon to activate your microphone. Interpretation is available in this video conference. You have the choice, at the bottom of your screen, of either “floor”, “English” or “French”.
Please speak slowly and clearly. When you are not speaking, your mic should be on mute.
I would like now to welcome our witnesses to continue our discussion, with five minutes of opening remarks followed by questions.
We have with us today, from the Canadian Men's Shed Association, Doug Mackie, chair.
We also have Violaine Guerin, coordinator of the Conseil régional de développement social des Laurentides.
We will start with Mr. Mackie for five minutes. I'm really looking forward to this.
Mr. Mackie, you have the floor.
4:40 p.m.
Doug Mackie Chair, Canadian Men's Sheds Association
Do I have to start off with a joke, or is that okay?
Thank you for the opportunity to be a witness today.
Men's Sheds is a volunteer-based organization that currently has 39 sheds, or groups of men, in Canada. It's part of a worldwide movement of over 2,200 sheds located in Australia, New Zealand, the U.K., Ireland, the U.S.A., Kenya, Iceland and other countries, as well as Canada. Men's Sheds opened in North America in 2010 here in Winnipeg.
Men's Sheds is a unique volunteer grassroots organization run by men for men. The activities and projects are determined by the men themselves within their sheds, not from a central office. The main goal of a men's shed is to offer a safe, convenient place for men to gather, socialize, enjoy camaraderie and participate in individual projects or group projects while working shoulder to shoulder.
When a man retires, he loses structure in his life, may leave his most important social contacts at work and loses meaning in his life. Senior centres do not fill the gap. The membership of most senior centres is made up of 80% women and 20% men. Men can be hesitant to seek help. There are no other programs in Canada just for men and run by men.
Men's sheds combat loneliness, isolation, anxiety and depression in men. The Men's Sheds Association is not a self-help group. The Canadian Men's Sheds Association receives no federal funding, or even provincial funding, unless it's on a sporadic basis. This is very much unlike the Men's Sheds programs in the U.K., Ireland and Australia. The benefit of a men's shed is the improved emotional well-being or mental health of the men involved, thus improving the lives of the men, their families and the communities in which they live.
This is respectfully submitted.
Thank you.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sean Casey
Thank you, Mr. Mackie.
Mrs. Guerin, you have the floor for five minutes.
4:45 p.m.
Violaine Guerin Coordinator, Conseil régional de développement social des Laurentides
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
The mission of the Conseil régional de développement social des Laurentides is to increase and support the capacity for community action in social development in the Laurentides region. Its members come from different sectors working with vulnerable people, including seniors.
The measures adopted during the pandemic have had a profound impact on the mental health of seniors, and we have seen an increase in the incidence of psychological disorders, including depression, anxiety, sleep disorders and post-traumatic stress.
The physical and psychological effects on older adults will likely continue after the pandemic and beyond the time when physical distancing measures remain in place. To minimize the negative impacts, it is appropriate to ensure that visiting policies in residential facilities, hospitals and hospices balance the need to protect others with the need of the residents or patients to see family and to socialize.
It would also be appropriate to study and review how and when we involve older adults across the country, to have them participate more in making decisions and developing policies that affect them. Social participation helps to protect the health of older adults. Those who participate have better cognitive abilities. While physical distancing measures are intended to protect the health of vulnerable people, the same measures also lead to social isolation, which in turn leads to the deterioration of mental health, physical health and cognitive abilities.
Elderly people who have felt they were isolated during the pandemic have tended to engage in behaviours that are detrimental to their health. In addition, the disruption of many community services and home visits due to the pandemic has had a significant impact on the health of older adults who rely on the services.
The pandemic has also given rise to more ageist messages and discrimination against older adults. These messages reaffirm a preconceived perception that older adults are vulnerable people whose lives are less valuable than those of younger people. [Technical difficulty], perceiving older adults as a homogenous group undermines their social identity, which makes them more susceptible to discrimination and exclusion, and fails to adequately portray their contribution to society or their resilience in the face of crisis. These messages may lead to a number of social consequences, such as discrimination against older workers and retirees looking to return to the workforce after the pandemic.
Internalizing ageist messages could also have significant consequences on older adults, such as a loss of self-esteem and a loss of a sense of purpose in society.
It is therefore important to use non-stigmatizing language to describe older people, to avoid stereotypes, and to avoid labelling all older people as frail and vulnerable. We should also refrain from referring to older people in words that have negative connotations and that convey prejudice. Intergenerational exchanges should be encouraged to increase solidarity between the generations and to fight prejudice. Awareness campaigns should also be developed to combat ageism.
Fraud and abuse in all their forms have increased during the pandemic. Seniors have been targeted at a time when they are more vulnerable and anxious. They need the right tools to be as informed as possible about the various scams and frauds to which they could fall victim. It is therefore appropriate to strengthen prevention and protection services for seniors against all forms of violence, abuse and fraud. Seniors should also be informed, educated, made aware and equipped so that they know that those problems exist.
The pandemic has come with its own set of challenges and has forced us to adapt very quickly to new technologies. However, the shift to virtual platforms socially excludes the elderly and places them at a lower level. Many older adults share a similar level of digital literacy, and few have been attending virtual gatherings during the pandemic. We are seeing deep inequalities in this group's social participation virtually, because it further excludes low-income seniors with lower levels of education, as well as those with underlying medical conditions.
The situation has widened the digital divide, especially for seniors living in rural areas where Internet access is still lacking, and for the most vulnerable seniors who cannot afford to buy the technology.
Seniors and their caregivers must therefore be helped to have access to digital communication tools or other ways of keeping in touch with family and social networks when actual travel is limited. We should also make it possible for older adults to participate in lifelong learning programs and improve their access to information and communication technologies.
This is not new: seniors want to remain in their homes as long as possible. Given what we have experienced during the pandemic, with many deaths in various types of housing for seniors, seniors are even more resolved to remain in their private homes. Governments will have to look at concrete solutions to help seniors stay in their homes. Home-based services will need to be more readily available, so that they can remain in those homes under the best possible conditions.
The shortage of affordable, adaptable and accessible housing is also a growing problem. This sometimes leads seniors to relocate and move closer to larger urban centres so they have access to housing that is more affordable and closer to amenities. It would therefore be advisable to increase mobile services to ensure access to more isolated seniors, or those with limited mobility, so their needs can be assessed and support provided.
It would also be advisable to ensure that appropriate care services are always available for older adults. These include mental health services and palliative and geriatric care. They also include support for unpaid caregivers who provide care in the home and community, as well as paid social workers who provide home care and institutional care.
We also need to ensure that community services and assistance to older adults, including social and legal services, are maintained despite physical distancing restrictions.
We must recognize the critical role of family caregivers and enable them to play that role with the necessary tools.
We suggest that programs be put in place to foster and support home care.
In addition, more affordable and accessible community housing for seniors is needed so that they can continue to live in a safe environment.
According to the market basket measure, in the Laurentides region, 6.3% of seniors aged 65 and over fall below the low income threshold, meaning that 5,930 individuals are in precarious situations. It's important that we gain expertise and be more vigilant with respect to the living and employment conditions of people aged 55 and over by ensuring that basic needs are covered and that they do not fall into the poverty level after they retire.
We need to make it a priority to ensure the right to a basic quality of life for everyone, in retirement as in an entire lifespan.
The social participation of seniors is no longer in question. The aging population certainly brings its own set of challenges—
4:55 p.m.
Coordinator, Conseil régional de développement social des Laurentides
Yes, I'm done. This is my conclusion.
4:55 p.m.
Coordinator, Conseil régional de développement social des Laurentides
However, it is important for us to measure the social impact that seniors have in the community. They are volunteers, mentors, caregivers, lovers of the arts and tourism, and consumers, just like everyone else.
National programs and policies fail to adequately protect the human rights and the lives of older adults. The post-COVID‑19 recovery must be an opportunity to lay the groundwork for a more inclusive, equitable, and age-friendly society, rooted in human rights and with the goal of never again leaving anyone behind.
Thank you.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sean Casey
Thank you, Mrs. Guerin.
We will begin now with questions, starting with Mr. Morantz for six minutes.
Welcome to the committee, sir. You have the floor.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Marty Morantz Conservative Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. It's nice to be here.
Hi, Doug.
June 22nd, 2021 / 4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Marty Morantz Conservative Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
For purposes of disclosure, Doug is actually a constituent of mine, but more than that he is a great jokester, and more than that he is a great Manitoban.
I first met Doug back when I was on Winnipeg City Council a few years ago and he came to present to the committee. I'd never heard of Men's Sheds, but since then I've visited Men's Sheds a number of times. This group does amazing work and really deserves the attention of this committee. In fact, I said to Doug that if my political career ever came to an abrupt or voluntary end, I may seek membership in the Men's Shed if they'll have me. We'll cross that bridge someday, I suppose.
Doug, I want to give you a chance to speak a little bit more about Men's Sheds so the committee gets an idea as to exactly what happens there. I know when I visited, men were carving canes out of tree branches and doing woodworking and working with glass and doing all kinds of arts and crafts and things like that. I wonder if you could describe it. I see you have an example of the woodwork right there.
4:55 p.m.
Chair, Canadian Men's Sheds Association
Yes, Marty, thanks very much.
Men communicate differently from women and men communicate differently when they are virtually alone instead of within a group of mixed people. Quite often, a man starts his communication with his arms across his chest, protecting himself.
What Men's Sheds offers is an open area where people can come and get to learn and to know each other. Why would they be doing this?
Well, these are comfort birds, by the way, and they're given to palliative care patients. They fit beautifully in your hand. One of our men made 150 of them and donated them to a person working with people in palliative care.
If you give a man something to do, whether it's a bigger project or a small project, he'll sit there and do his work and start looking at the man beside him or on the other side and watching what they're doing. Then, believe it or not, they open up. Who are you? What did you do? What is your family? How are you feeling? What are you doing?
I can relate very personal stories about how doing things together shoulder to shoulder—and not in a plan, project or program that is dedicated to them but in an open-ended kind of thing—gives men an opportunity to sit back, relax and start to communicate.
That's one of the questions or problems. People say, “Men don't communicate.” Yes, they do, under the proper circumstances.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Marty Morantz Conservative Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
I've seen it first-hand. It really is a great environment, particularly for men who are widowed or retired and alone, but even more when their situation is exacerbated by the COVID pandemic.
I'm just wondering if you have been able to have meetings virtually at all, or have they been...? How have you coped?
4:55 p.m.
Chair, Canadian Men's Sheds Association
That's an interesting comment. What I found is that when men's sheds are within a good community—it could be Squamish or Vanderhoof, B.C., or Almonte, Ontario—those men get together. We've been having a number of Zoom meetings. At one stage of the game, I think I was on five or six a week, listening to men from all over.
Interestingly enough, with a men's shed in Ireland and another situation with the U.K. Men's Sheds, Zoom has allowed us to meet and greet and establish relationships, both locally here in Canada and elsewhere on an international basis.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Marty Morantz Conservative Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
How many are there in Canada right now?