Human Resources Committee on June 22nd, 2021

[Kathy Majowski]

Yes, absolutely.

I'm going to speak a little bit from my day job role.

I am a registered nurse and I work in the core area of Winnipeg. We see on a daily basis how underserved our older adults are. Those are my clients. Those are the people I support. We know that people fare better in our system with supports from family, friends and others advocating for them, but there's a large swath of individuals, both those who are disabled and older adults, who don't have those folks advocating for them, and they're really left to their own devices, so they're missing out on core services and finances and sometimes funding being available to them because they're not able to navigate the system and they don't have the community supports they need to be able to do that.

That's where our program actually comes in and tries to fill in the gaps, but it's not enough and it hasn't been enough for years. For people with disabilities who also live in poverty or for people with disabilities who are over 55 or 65, the communities are not set up to support them. There are actually more barriers than supports in place. They're regularly hearing “no”. A lifetime of hearing “no” or “you don't qualify” or “you're not eligible” gets to be very disheartening.

In the last year, with the pandemic, many of the services that had been in place consistently for these folks disappeared. Now we have individuals who are still living in poverty, who still have disabilities, who are still older adults at higher risk if they do contract COVID, but they are without access to technology and without access to phones. Some of the services are available only with technology. Our province has a wonderful counselling program that it launched and funded really early on in the pandemic, having recognized that mental health concerns are very real concerns. Many of our clients have no ability to access it. Either they don't have the skills to use technology or they don't have the funding to do it. We see that those gaps are significant, and they've widened with the decrease in services.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Going back to the question of poverty, in 2012 Statistics Canada reported that 12.1% of older Canadians were living at a low income and that by 2016 the number had increased to 14.5%. That goes to your point that we're not taking better care of our seniors; in fact, they're going into deeper levels of poverty. On top of that, the pandemic also revealed the extent to which Canada forces seniors into vulnerable and unlivable conditions.

I present this question to both of you. It's just a question. I put forward a motion for a guaranteed livable basic income. How do you think this would benefit seniors?

[Kathy Majowski]

If I may start, Ms. Oko, I would say that I think this is huge in the community. We were told that $2,000 a month was the minimum amount that people needed to survive in Canada throughout the pandemic. Many of our older adults and people living with disabilities and older adults living with disabilities are expected to live on much less than that a month. They have to make concessions when it comes to the housing they choose and the services that are available to them. What food they are able to purchase is dependent on what's at the corner store, because they don't have transportation to get to a grocery store.

The challenges are just compounded as we get older, and our older adults who are also living in poverty are much more impacted, with many more barriers being put in front of them. The guaranteed basic income would make a massive difference. It would finally allow them to feel comfortable.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Majowski. Thank you, Ms. Gazan.

Next is Ms. Dancho. Go ahead for five minutes, please.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for your testimony. I found it very heartfelt, and we could tell that pursuing better and dignified care that is compassionate and considerate for those in long-term care is very personal to you and a passion of yours.

Obviously this year we've seen that there is an incredible need. It really feels as though it's lifted the veil for Canadians to see how [Technical difficulty—Editor] with home care, as you, Ms. Majowski, had touched on, as had Ms. Oko with regard to long-term care.

I have a question for each of you.

First, Ms. Oko, in some of the answers to other questions today you talked about isolation and the impact on your mother's health. We heard something similar in previous testimony as well. One witness told us that there is a measurable decline in physical and mental ability for seniors in long-term care after prolonged isolation.

Also, I really appreciate how you laid out your remarks. There were the three problems and the four solutions. That was excellent. For the purposes of my question, could you outline a little bit further how you saw grave impacts from that isolation and potential solutions to that?

[Mary Oko]

In the case of my mom, my mom was somewhat engaged. She did talk. When music was being played, she would readily clap her hands—not that she understood what was going on, but she had energy. Now when I visit with her, she sleeps most of the time. When she is awake, I can't get her to talk to me, or when I play music, she's just lying in bed. She's not engaged. I play-act. I have musical instruments. I play YouTube clips of polka music consistently while I'm dancing around the room. I can't get anything out of her. This is after just five months of isolation. I have good days and bad days, and a lot of days, unfortunately, they are bad: I'm there for maybe six or seven hours, and she's awake for maybe an hour. This is a woman who was walking with a walker in December.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Thank you for sharing that. I certainly took quite a few notes on your remarks and I will further reflect on the recommendations. I thought you made some very strong ones.

I'm sorry that you're dealing with this in your family. I can appreciate the polka music; my grandparents greatly liked polka music as well. Again, thank you for what you're doing for your mom. I wish everyone had advocates like you are for your mother.

Ms. Majowski, you touched on home care. I want to ask for your perspective on something I read recently by a man named André Picard, who has written extensively about long-term care. He is proposing that the Dutch model may be a solution to some of the issues that we're facing with home care.

Recently my grandfather passed away. We tried really hard to keep him at home, as was his request, so he wasn't isolated at a hospital or in long-term care. However, we saw so many different home care workers who would come in for 50 minutes and often engage in very intimate activity with cleaning or changing. It was very difficult for an individual who thus far, until this point, had been completely autonomous. I just think that the Dutch model, whereby they come in, sit down, have coffee with the resident, spend a couple of hours there, and get to know the community and the other residents, was an interesting idea. Seeing it first-hand, I would love your perspective on that.

[Kathy Majowski]

Absolutely. I've personally witnessed, working in the community, less and less time available for frontline staff to interact with people. We've seen push-back from those same frontline staff, who are saying they can't do it. Yes, in an ideal world, they can prepare a meal in 10 minutes, but what about the clients who need to talk about something? What if there is a crisis going on? Way too many of our clients are hearing things like, “I'm sorry. I just don't have time. If I sit with you, I'm late for the next person.” Those significant time constraints in the community are robbing the people who are receiving services of real connections. It sounds like your grandfather did have family supports around him, and that's wonderful, but we know that for many people who are receiving home care, home care is their only contact with the outside world.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

That's right.

[Kathy Majowski]

If it's somebody coming in and doing very intimate care over a 10-minute period and maybe not even having time to introduce themselves or explain what they're going to do because they're so worried about getting it done in that period of time, they don't have that connection. They don't have that contact. It can actually feel very uncomfortable for the individual receiving care.

I support the Dutch model. I support extending the time available for frontline staff who are caring for individuals in the community.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Thank you very much to both of you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you.

Next we have Mr. Turnbull for five minutes, please.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I'm going to split my time with MP Vaughan.

Ms. Oko, I want to echo the comments from my other colleagues about your testimony today. It's really emotional. I very much relate to it on an emotional level because it's very similar to the story of my own mother, who is in long-term care as well.

I just want to ask you.... I know you've been advocating for your mother, and I know that's something that many family members have to do. I guess one reflection that I constantly have is that if you, as a person who needs care, have to rely on someone else to advocate for you in order to get the quality of care you need, it seems like a key indicator of a broken system. Would you agree with that?

[Mary Oko]

Definitely. I'm advocating for my mom, but I'm also advocating for all the other residents. My fear is that because of privacy issues and confidentiality, whenever I'm dealing with the home or with the health care providers or the hospital, I can never talk about someone else because of confidentiality issues. It always has to be related to my mom.

When I filed a complaint with the ministry, I raised concerns that existed for other residents, but unless it was something that was impacting my mom specifically, they couldn't address it. That's my biggest fear, because I myself do not have children. I do not have an advocate who will be advocating for me when the time comes that I need long-term care or assistance in a long-term care facility.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thank you for that.

Ms. Majowski, I have a quick question for you. You mentioned the survey you did and the large number of people reporting increased elder abuse during the pandemic. What kind of elder abuse did you see, specifically? Are you seeing social or financial abuse, neglect, physical abuse? Can you describe a little bit the trends that you were seeing?

[Kathy Majowski]

I would be happy to provide a report of our survey.

We put out the survey to our members, to our network, which includes frontline service providers and researchers in the field from across the country. Off the top of my head, I don't know if we broke it down that specifically. I understand that there are different levels and different kinds of elder abuse, but the bottom line is that when our frontline senior service providers are saying that they're seeing an increase, that's the information that we're going with.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Okay, that's fair.

I'll give the rest of my time over to MP Vaughan.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Thank you.

I share the whole committee's appreciation for the personal testimonies as well as the emotional impact they've had.

Ms. Oko, you talked about national standards, but you also seem to talk about those standards not coming from Ottawa but being supported by Ottawa as a condition of funding. In other words, they come from frontline workers and they come from families and lived experience, but they're married to funding that Ottawa then distributes to provinces.

Is that the system you're advocating?

[Mary Oko]

Yes, I feel that no one person is the source of the best ideas. I feel that it has to be a collaborative effort, meaning the federal level, the provinces, the municipalities, the stakeholders, the advocates and the families coming together and working together collaboratively in terms of a standard that would make [Technical difficulty—Editor] perspective and a resource perspective that is doable across Canada from coast to coast to coast.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Is that partly driven from your experience of watching federal funding being invested into long-term care in Ontario while the situation didn't actually improve over the summer? During the second wave, some of the shortcomings actually intensified, so money wasn't the solution; a systems change also needed to be put in place. Is that part of where that observation comes from?

[Mary Oko]

Well, yes, and it's also just from the conversations that I've had with friends, primarily in Quebec and B.C., and comparing notes in terms of what was being done in those provinces.

However, I'm sure if I started speaking to families from other provinces we'd see disparity as well. Even within the same city, the city of Toronto, when we were in the thick of an outbreak, one home—our home—was testing the staff only every five days for COVID, while another home that was in an outbreak was testing the staff every three days. Same city, same public health, same Ministry of Long-Term Care, and yet.... Why was that happening? Families were never given a proper answer.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Oko. I'm sorry, Mr. Vaughan, that's your time. I know it goes by quickly.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

No worries. Thank you.