On Saturday, I was running around my hometown of Abbotsford and listening to The House on CBC. They were speaking with a Dene first nation in Northwest Territories, with Yellowknives Dene First Nation Chief Ernest Betsina, I believe, and he spoke a lot about a previous program from the 1980s called HAP, whereby the Government of Canada would buy building supplies and supply them to individuals in various first nations in northern Canada to build their own homes, with assistance from experts where needed. The Dene first nation in the radio program spoke about how that gave a sense of ownership to the first nations, and it created a home and got people out of other government programs. There seemed to be a lot of support for this program.

Mr. Byers, are you familiar with HAP, that program from the 1980s?

7:05 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Namerind Housing Corporation

Robert Byers

No, sir, I'm not.

7:05 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC

Okay.

Ms. Bonneau, are you familiar with HAP, that program from the 1980s?

7:05 p.m.

Senior Director, Operations, Métis Urban Housing Corporation of Alberta Inc.

Bindu Bonneau

I was just born at that time.

7:05 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC

Okay.

Well, it seemed like it was a wonderful program, because what they also spoke about in the radio program was housing as a matter of sovereignty, and indigenous programs for indigenous people by indigenous people. It seemed to go on this model of reconciliation but also of independence from the federal government.

Given that neither of you have looked at the program, I will save those questions for another witness in the future.

Mr. Byers, what advice would you give the Matsqui First Nation in my constituency, which has recently come into possession of prime commercial land within the city of Abbotsford? What steps could they be taking to make the best investments involving both the commercial and residential spaces that they will invariably be developing?

7:05 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Namerind Housing Corporation

Robert Byers

Seeing that I don't know a lot about Abbotsford and I don't know much about the location.... I've always said that I wish we had invested more money in commercial real estate, such as our mall and our pharmacy. Those were great investments for us.

To invest in housing without government funding is tough, because there's no money in affordable or social housing, but there is money in commercial real estate. I think our mall gives us about half a million dollars a year to invest back into affordable housing, so I wish we had a few malls.

For the group in Abbotsford, just looking long-term at investments, really to be a part of the business and—what did we call it, Mr. Long?—economic reconciliation, to be a part of that is a big step in developing and moving forward with affordable and social housing. Those are my beliefs.

7:05 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC

Do you know of many cases across Canada where first nations are the housing providers to non-first nations?

7:05 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Namerind Housing Corporation

Robert Byers

Well, I know we house some non-first nations. I'm sure there are many. I'd be surprised if we were the only one.

7:10 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC

Okay.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm done for today.

7:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

Thank you very much, Mr. Vis.

Next we have Mr. Dong, please, for five minutes.

7:10 p.m.

Liberal

Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON

Thank you, Chair.

Good evening to both presenters. It's very nice to have you here. My first question will be for both of you.

How does the availability of funding affect your organization's programs and services for housing indigenous people?

7:10 p.m.

Senior Director, Operations, Métis Urban Housing Corporation of Alberta Inc.

Bindu Bonneau

As I mentioned earlier, we highly depend on government support for our operations. Right now at Métis Urban Housing Corporation we are running our operations under the operating agreements we have with Alberta Seniors and Housing. These agreements will be expiring come 2022, and we are living in uncertainty right now on how we're going to operate. The need for subsidized housing and affordable housing is not going to deplete anytime soon—or ever—and supporting those families with the rent we offer will not happen if we do not have any operational support from government.

It is not just the families; it is the people who run these programs or organizations. We need capacity. We need to invest in building capacity. That is huge at this time. We need to invest in technology, human resources and those kinds of things. They are directly linked to the delivery of the program. We are highly impacted by those. I would say the life of non-profit organizations will be very short if we do not have support from government.

7:10 p.m.

Liberal

Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON

Okay.

Mr. Byers, I will ask you the same question. How does the availability of funding affect your organization's programs and services for housing indigenous people?

7:10 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Namerind Housing Corporation

Robert Byers

I would say that without investment by the federal government it certainly slows us down. I was just thinking of all the investments we've made. We currently own about half a city block in downtown Regina that sits vacant with a temporary parking lot. We had planned on doing a development there, but as we worked with CMHC on this, we determined that our eyes were too big, I guess. It's not something we can maybe handle.

Honestly, an investment by the federal government is needed when it comes to affordable housing. Our investments are investments that make us money so that we can provide or develop affordable housing in partnership with the federal government.

7:10 p.m.

Liberal

Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON

Okay.

I want to go back to your response, Ms. Bonneau, about adequate funding. In your view, how does that affect your ability to provide culturally sensitive or culturally appropriate programming?

December 1st, 2020 / 7:10 p.m.

Senior Director, Operations, Métis Urban Housing Corporation of Alberta Inc.

Bindu Bonneau

Right now the houses we own were given to us by CMHC. Those homes are very old, maybe 50 to 70 years old. If you were going to convert those homes to meet the cultural requirements of indigenous people, you would have to tear them down. They are full of asbestos. They require a lot of remediation. We're talking huge dollars.

That's where our limitation is. Maintaining those homes and having adequate replacement reserves on hand is really important for us.

7:10 p.m.

Liberal

Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON

Mr. Byers, I have the same question Mr. Long asked Ms. Bonneau.

Can you describe the current need in Saskatchewan for urban indigenous housing?

7:15 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Namerind Housing Corporation

Robert Byers

Specifically to Regina and our organization, we have about 350 families on our waiting list.

7:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

Thank you, Mr. Byers.

Ms. Chabot, you have two and a half minutes.

7:15 p.m.

Bloc

Louise Chabot Bloc Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Bonneau, you provide services in 14 urban centres across Alberta. That's a lot, given all the challenges. Congratulations.

Do needs and realities vary from one centre to another? In other words, are there barriers or challenges common to all these urban settings? Are there, on the contrary, more specific distinctions that really need to be taken into account?