Human Resources Committee on Dec. 1st, 2020

[Dr. Julia Christensen]

Should I go first? Okay.

At Home in the North, the partnership that I direct, includes 40 community partners, largely indigenous governments across the territorial north, indigenous organizations and NGOs.

What I am hearing loud and clear from indigenous partners is the desire to see direct funding to indigenous communities, at the community level. I think that is one of the biggest obstacles to addressing these very culturally and contextually specific housing needs, and being able to develop and implement programs that can prioritize specific groups within a community.

For example, in Fort Good Hope the K'asho Got'ine Housing Society has implemented a transitional housing program for single men in their community, because they identify that as being a priority area. That was something that came through their own efforts to take back decision-making around housing program development within their community and as a part of their self-government process.

That would be greatly supported, if federal funding was directed to the community level and didn't go through the territorial government beforehand. I see that as being a significant obstacle to being able to implement these kinds of community-specific, culturally specific housing programs.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Dr. Christensen.

Thank you, Ms. Chabot.

Next we'll have Ms. Gazan, please, for six minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you, Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses for being here today. My friend Damon, it's been a minute with COVID, but we work in the same community, so it's so nice to see you today. My first question is actually for you.

The Native Women's Association of Canada indicates that indigenous women living off reserve experience gender and racial discrimination by potential property owners. We know, certainly in the city of Winnipeg, that violence against indigenous women and girls has been a real crisis, and part of that, the violation of our safety, affects ability to find adequate housing.

Call to justice 4.7 of the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls calls for the government “to support the establishment and long-term sustainable funding of Indigenous-led low-barrier shelters, safe spaces, transition homes, second-stage housing, and services for Indigenous women, girls and 2SLGBTQQIA people”.

I was really happy to work with my colleague Adam Vaughan to secure funding, after many years, for a 24-7 safe space for women, girls, 2SLGBTQQIA people.

I was wondering if you can speak to the critical importance of low-barrier 24-7 safe spaces and housing as a life-saving measure, particularly for indigenous women, girls and 2SLGBTQQIA people. Certainly we know that Thunderbird House in my riding.... I live right by Main Street. We see the decline in mental health and the lack of spaces for people who may not be ready to give up addictions, for example. Can you speak to the importance of that as a life-saving measure in our community?

[Damon Johnston]

Absolutely.

No doubt there's a need for what you say, and it's absolutely essential that the solutions come from the women themselves and that the housing that is eventually developed meets their specific needs. Even within groups, there are differences, and those have to be addressed in any effective housing projects of that nature.

The necessary supports to enable successful interventions with any of the issues the women may be facing and the connections to the agencies need to be there. As I said before, we have 25 or more urban indigenous organizations, plus now there's a growing first nations-specific...the Eagle Urban Transition Centre, for example.

There's no shortage of knowledgeable, experienced, innovative capacity within the urban community to work with women's groups to achieve these housing goals.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Yes, I appreciate that, Damon, because I know that the families of murdered and missing indigenous women have been fighting very hard in our community to secure more low-barrier safe spaces. I appreciate your involvement in housing over the years trying to improve the situation in our community, so thank you for that.

My next question is for Dr. Christensen, with regard to intersectionalities. November was Indigenous Disability Awareness Month, and we know that indigenous people in Canada have a disability rate significantly higher than the general population and often deal with intersectional discrimination, both having a disability and being indigenous.

According to Statistics Canada, in 2017, 32% of first nations living off reserve, 30% of Métis and 19% of Inuit had one or more disabilities that limited them in their daily activities. How should this disproportionate number of indigenous persons with disabilities be considered when indigenous housing strategies are created and funded?

I say that because often the housing that is created may not necessarily be accessible or provide the support, under article 19 of the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, to live in dignity. Could you speak to that specifically?

[Dr. Julia Christensen]

One of the challenges is that there is a complex array of needs and there is no one-size-fits-all solution that can address all of those complex needs. In terms of an indigenous housing strategy that would give significance to the experiences of indigenous people with disabilities, there are some great examples of collaborations between indigenous organizations and others in the non-profit sector that work specifically with residents with disabilities to look at housing models that can meet the specific needs of people with disabilities.

There could be a place there for increased collaboration with the non-profit sector, which is already very engaged in this area, to help inform and develop collaborative strategies in the development of indigenous housing strategies.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Gazan and Dr. Christensen.

We're going to Mr. Schmale, for five minutes.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for your testimony. It's amazing stuff, so much that we've been hearing.

In similar topics, we've been hearing about the ability to really harness the decision-making in the local community. You touched on a bunch of barriers that you've been facing, and I appreciate hearing about them. We have heard similar stories from other witnesses who have appeared before our committee, so there seems to be an unfortunate common theme here.

I want to talk quickly about the path of economic reconciliation as well. I think it's a pretty important part of that. There are three areas I want to talk about that have been bandied about as potential solutions. Some of that has been already discussed in questioning here in the last 30 minutes or so, and some of it you brought up in your testimony. I'd like some feedback, if I could. I can pick one at a time, or if one person wants to comment, that's fine too.

The first is providing indigenous communities with more authority to enhance their fiscal powers—whether it is related to taxation, excise tax resources, the sale of goods; it doesn't matter—in order to build their economic capacity within their community.

The second would be something along the lines of working with indigenous-led financial institutions like the First Nations Financial Management Board, the First Nations Tax Commission or the First Nations Finance Authority to reduce some of the hurdles in the Indian Act that discourage private sector investment in indigenous communities, including many of your priorities, and lower the cost of long-term capital through policies that enhance credit ratings and provide greater security to lenders.

The third is the creation of a first nations infrastructure institute to help interested first nations build more fiscally, economically and environmentally sound infrastructure, all by better coordinating the fiscal and financing options and providing innovations for all parts of infrastructure. Basically, it's removing the part where.... Even Ms. Gazan mentioned that in her capacity as a vice-principal she had to write application after application, whereas schools off reserve would automatically get that. Maybe it's just about creating their own first nations infrastructure institute, where those projects could come at a grassroots level.

I don't know who wants to comment first or if anyone wants to comment, but I'm interested in getting feedback, if I could.

[Damon Johnston]

I'll give it a shot.

You're referencing first nations in particular. They're only one of the four places of interest that make up the indigenous community in Winnipeg and Manitoba. There are first nations, Métis, Inuit and urban.

The first nations are creating what we call urban reserves in Winnipeg. We have two of them now, and then there's another one, a bigger project about 110 acres in size. Basically, first nations can build anything on these sites, but they're still part of the reserve. They're still governed in large degree by the Indian Act and its regulations, which, as you pointed out, sometimes represent barriers to investment from private sector sources.

Going forward, we would hope that the federal government, in negotiating with first nations.... The most important thing we could do there would be to move the Indian Act out of play and create a new legislative relationship between first nations. Then we could also correct the historical imbalance of a lack of relationship with the Métis people who, if not for the Indian Act, would be members of our communities today. Again, that's evidenced because we have Métis individuals who are now acting in Manitoba to re-establish an old reserve around Duck Bay.

Many of the barriers to financing from any source other than government are in the Indian Act itself. It has to go. There are no ifs, ands or buts. It's well beyond its shelf life.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

I would agree.

[Damon Johnston]

I will finalize by saying that it would benefit all of us for that to happen, all of the four groups I told you about earlier, because we are already working together. We're making agreements or deals with each other to support different types of initiatives we want to undertake in Winnipeg. That could be even easier if the Indian Act were not in the picture.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Johnston, and thank you, Mr. Schmale.

Mr. Turnbull, you have five minutes, please.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to both witnesses for being here. I'm learning a lot from you. I really appreciate your coming to the committee and giving us so much insight on such an important study.

Mr. Johnston, maybe I can ask you a couple of questions. Both of you today spoke to innovative strategies and collaboration—

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Mr. Chair—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Go ahead, Ms. Chabot.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

The interpreter tells us that the MP has the wrong setting.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Okay.

Mr. Turnbull, can you just check and see what channel you're on?

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

I'm on the English channel.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Is there a technical problem?

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Am I not on the right setting?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

No, if you're on the English channel, you're okay.

Is it working now, Ms. Chabot?

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Yes, it's working.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Great.

We'll restart the clock, Mr. Turnbull. Go ahead.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thank you very much.

As I was saying, both of you spoke to innovative models, indigenous-led models, and I'm really interested in how social innovation may be impacting the work within Winnipeg and the indigenous executive circle.

Mr. Johnston, maybe I can start with you. You spoke to some innovative models. I'm wondering whether you can give us a sense of whether there are any other innovative indigenous-led models that you're pursuing, other than the ones you already mentioned, which were really great examples. Do you want to speak to that?

[Damon Johnston]

A big part of our work here in Winnipeg and the great accomplishments now of bringing these organizations together is that we're on this path under an umbrella of truth and reconciliation, recovering some our historical ways of doing things, if you know what I mean: historical governance structures and historical thinking, holistic thinking.

It has changed me. I told you earlier that I grew up off reserve, and we were the only indigenous family in this small town outside of Thunder Bay, Ontario, so I lost my language and any chance to learn my language. I lost any ability to participate in any real way in historical ceremonial practice and other cultural activities, but what I gained was an incredible understanding of non-indigenous peoples, other Canadians, and an understanding of the struggle with racism and discrimination. It began on the playground, but eventually most of us became friends, because we interacted with each other.

One of the most damaging aspects of Canadian history was our segregation on reserves and all that went with that. Any time you separate peoples from each other, you get these kinds of results. It's evidence-based. There are psychological outcomes and there are health outcomes, all kinds of negative outcomes for the individuals who experience these things.

As I grew to understand this in a much better way through a higher level of interaction with my first nations relatives on reserve and with being involved in the constitutional talks with the former prime minister Trudeau, it was an eye-opening experience, and it truly enabled me to understand why my relatives, who had grown up on reserve, were so different from me in some important ways. Then I appreciated that the education system on reserve, as we all know, was not on par with what was occurring off reserve. Much of that is the experience of the individuals today who were working so hard to try to be included in what we call Canada to enable them to get homes, what they call homes, what means home to them.

The last thing I'll say is that the unique new village we're creating is very similar to a historical indigenous village, but instead of canvas teepees or teepees made out of animal skins, the teepees in this case are made out of steel, but you still have the elements. You have the central fire and you have the teepee, a real teepee, sitting nearby. You're building in historical cultural elements that cause the individuals there to recover themselves and recover their historical way of living. They're helping each other, being able to help each other. This becomes really important when you're addressing issues like addictions to either alcohol or drugs, and the support that these individuals can give to each other.

I've seen this. I visited a mandated alcohol program in Thunder Bay, my home town, that was managed by a first nations woman. The outcomes there were quite incredible. These things, these newer types of programming to address addictions, are not yet available here in Manitoba, because, as you know, some governments struggle to appreciate these newer, evidence-based approaches to addressing these kinds of issues, and so, across Canada, we oftentimes have programs in one jurisdiction that we don't have in other jurisdictions.