Human Resources Committee on Dec. 1st, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number eight of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of September 23, 2020. Proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. So that you are aware, the webcast will always show the person speaking rather than the entirety of the committee.

Witnesses are reminded that they can speak in the official language of their choice. Interpretation services are available. You have the choice, at the bottom of your screen, of floor, English or French.

I understand Mr. Kent is joining us in the room.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name and please open your microphone. When you don't have the floor, please close your microphone. Please address your comments through the chair.

I would now like to welcome our witnesses. We have Bindu Bonneau, senior director of operations for the Métis Urban Housing Corporation of Alberta, and Robert Byers, President and CEO of Namerind Housing Corporation.

Ms. Bonneau, welcome to the committee. You have five minutes for your opening remarks. The floor is yours.

[Bindu Bonneau, Senior Director, Operations, Métis Urban Housing Corporation of Alberta Inc.]

Good evening, everyone. It is my pleasure to be here with you. This is my first time attending this committee.

I have been with the Métis Urban Housing Corporation for the last eight years, and I have witnessed many successes and challenges in this organization while I've been with it.

Métis Housing is made up of two organizations, Métis Urban Housing and Métis Capital Housing. We are affiliated with the Métis Nation of Alberta. These organizations are wholly owned by the Métis Nation of Alberta. Our mandate is to provide affordable, adequate and suitable housing to Métis and other indigenous peoples in Alberta. Between these two corporations, the Métis Nation of Alberta owns about 900 homes across Alberta.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Bonneau, for such a succinct opening statement.

Next, we'll to Mr. Byers for five minutes.

Go ahead, please.

[Robert Byers, President and Chief Executive Officer, Namerind Housing Corporation]

I won't be as fast.

Hi everyone, and thank you for inviting me here today to speak on this critical piece missing from the 2017 national housing strategy.

My name is Robert Byers and I am the president and CEO of Namerind Housing Corporation in Regina, Saskatchewan. I am also the chair of the indigenous caucus of the Canadian Housing and Renewal Association, which represents the interests of indigenous housing and service providers across the country.

Namerind is an indigenous non-profit housing provider in Regina, Saskatchewan. Our mission is to provide safe and affordable quality housing and economic development opportunities for indigenous people in Regina.

In 1977, our community determined a great need for affordable housing for indigenous people. Supply was an issue, but so was discrimination. We decided to take care of our own. That goal has led us on a journey that now includes so much more than just a roof over the heads of our tenants. We are giving opportunities back to the indigenous community to create jobs, to create wealth and to create a sense of ownership.

We focus on the importance of each staff member as an integral part of this team: first nations, Métis, non-native and visible minorities. We have also created community partnerships to better the broader Regina community. Together we believe we can provide safe, affordable, self-sustained housing to all those in need.

As of April 2020, Namerind Housing Corporation serves as the community entity for the Government of Canada's Reaching Home homelessness strategy in Regina. We are responsible for both funding streams: the designated communities stream and the indigenous homelessness funding stream.

As a community entity, Namerind is administering more than $5.6 million in Reaching Home funds during the 2020-21 year to support vulnerable Regina populations in gaining and maintaining safe, stable and affordable housing. Namerind Housing, as the Reaching Home community entity, works closely with the Regina homelessness community advisory board. This is out of necessity—79% of Regina's homeless people identify as indigenous.

The indigenous caucus of the Canadian Housing and Renewal Association represents the interests of more than 100 indigenous-led or indigenous-serving housing and service providers from across Canada. In 2018, with funding from Indigenous Services Canada and the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, the indigenous caucus of the Canadian Housing and Renewal Association undertook a study on the state of indigenous housing providers in urban, rural and northern communities.

Its recommendations stand. Virtually every action still waits for a response. I would be glad to provide that to the members of this committee following the meeting.

The “For Indigenous, By Indigenous” report concludes that a strategy is required over and above the national housing strategy already announced in November 2017, and it must include the following key actions: create a “for indigenous, by indigenous” national housing centre; increase the stable, safe, affordable supply of housing by 73,000 units across Canada; increase support for tenants' well-being and long-term success with wraparound services; accelerate action on indigenous homelessness; and put a focus on northern housing.

Those of you who heard me here in June will know that I am a passionate advocate for combining housing for indigenous people with wraparound services. There are no indigenous people who are not affected by the fallout from the residential school system. We need you to be our partner.

Those of you who heard me in June will also know it's colder now in Regina and in Canada's north. It is no fun being homeless in a Regina winter. There is not a thing I can think of that makes this approaching winter a wee bit better than last year for homeless indigenous people in Regina. That's not acceptable.

In June, I identified an opportunity for us to purchase a motel in downtown Regina for $3 million that could be repurposed as housing for homeless indigenous people, with a focus on getting elders and young moms with kids out of the shelter lineups. I'm busy filling out forms and expect to have an application into CMHC's rapid housing initiative. Sometimes the biggest challenge is in finding out where the money is.

I want to thank you again for inviting me here today, and I look forward to answering any questions that you may have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you very much, Mr. Byers, and welcome back.

We're going to begin with Mr. Schmale, please, for six minutes.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Good evening to both our witnesses today. Thank you for your input.

I might start with Mr. Byers, if I could.

Sir, I read your statement on your website, and I have to say I was very impressed. A couple of things jumped out at me—many things did, but two in particular. I'd be remiss, of course, if I didn't point out the foresight your organization had in diversifying your revenue streams through projects like your retail mall and your pharmacy, some of which you touched on in your opening remarks.

Personally, I believe that reconciliation also includes economic reconciliation. It includes self-sufficiency, and I think the government has a role to play where it can assist indigenous communities to create their own jobs, their own wealth, their sense of ownership, some of which you touched on in your opening statement. A lot of it is behind your philosophy, which your organization represents.

The second one seems to be the real sense that your organization isn't just about building houses. It's also committed to building a community as a whole and ensuring there's a strong relationship between indigenous and non-indigenous people. You probably don't know, but I was the critic for Crown-indigenous relations not too long ago, and through that process I became quite aware that we're in a time of change, not just COVID-related, but with Canada's relationship with its indigenous peoples. As you mentioned, CMHC's long-term operating agreements are expiring, and for more communities economic reconciliation and true self-sufficiency are becoming a reality. I think there's a real drive to have strategies that address reconciliation that are truly led by indigenous peoples.

Maybe I'll stop wasting my time talking here and ask you some questions.

With respect to indigenous housing, sir, were you contacted to be part of the national housing strategy?

[Robert Byers]

You know what? That's going back a ways and I have trouble remembering. I know that I've talked with Adam Vaughan on numerous occasions. I did play a part in the development of the Reaching Home strategy, and through the indigenous caucus in the Canadian Housing and Renewal Association we certainly made submissions to the federal government regarding that, so directly or indirectly I would say, yes, we were part of that.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Okay, perfect.

I know you touched on that in your remarks, but could you elaborate on how important economic self-sufficiency and the fostering of community have been to residents of your community? What advice would you give to the government or members of Parliament in general, regardless of what aisle they sit in, to ensure that what you've created could be replicated or offered as a potential path forward to other communities?

[Robert Byers]

I think back to what it was like when we got started on this journey. The subsidy that we were receiving from the federal government was decreasing year by year, to where, I believe, we got somewhere just over $100,000 or maybe $150,000 a year. That didn't do it, but we were prepared. We said that we have to do things differently. We said we can't always depend on any order of government; we have to depend on ourselves as well.

We had to do things differently, so we did. We became a part of other things in our community—other things that weren't housing. We sat on boards that were maybe arts. We became members of the chamber of commerce. We sat on that board. We became a part of the community. We felt that if we wanted other people to let us into their community, we'd better be a part of it. We asked a lot of questions, with the hopes that one day somebody was going to ask us. It happened. They started to ask us questions, and we started getting invited to events and things. They were asking where Namerind Housing was; they needed to get us to the table.

It was a long strategy, and it was a slow-moving one, but it's at the point now where we really are included in things in our community.

Most recently, the YMCA had to close down their main building in downtown Regina. We have since gotten a call from the board chair. They want to introduce us to the mayor to see what we can do and to see if we would have a need around homelessness. It just goes to show that being included and being involved in so many things really gives us all an opportunity to make our community better.

It is a challenge being an indigenous-led non-profit organization, and to have people say, “Where is Namerind Housing?” and then to get that call.... When it first started happening, I used to wonder why they were calling us. Now it's at the point where somebody will probably call us on this.

It was part of our plan.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Byers and Mr. Schmale.

Mr. Long has the floor next for six minutes.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you, Chair, and good evening to my colleagues.

Thank you to our witnesses this evening. I appreciate your presentations.

I do have questions for both of you, but seeing as MP Schmale started with Mr. Byers, I'll start with you, Ms. Bonneau.

As an urban indigenous housing provider, can you share what the major barriers have been in your ability to get projects off the ground and to finance them adequately?

[Bindu Bonneau]

Thank you for your question.

Actually, we have experienced many challenges during the past 10 years.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Tell us about them.

[Bindu Bonneau]

Not just our organizations, but our clients have experienced many successes and failures as we navigated through the system and processes. Even though the conversation about adequate and affordable housing is years old, the current pandemic has brought to light that we do not have concrete housing strategies for urban, rural and northern indigenous people in Canada.

There are several people on our wait-list hoping to move into a home one day. Many of them have been on the wait-list for over five years or maybe even longer. Some may have even lost hope that they will ever experience the comfort of living in a house or in a safe house.

This situation is the result of lack of adequate and sufficient housing. The housing stock we own is aged anywhere from 45 to 70 years. Most of those homes require complete refurbishment and many require demolition and rebuilding. We face many challenges while planning to renovate or rebuild these homes. These obstacles are wide-ranging, from financial barriers to transferring these residents to a safe place.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

I think you'll continue on as I ask these questions, but I just want to get them in.

Can you elaborate on how the national housing strategy has worked, if it has worked at all, for the urban indigenous context? If you have seen success in the national housing strategy, how can we expand upon that with a new, distinct strategy?

[Bindu Bonneau]

That is correct.

What support we have seen so far has been in capital investment. As a non-profit organization, we act as an arm of our government to provide affordable and subsidized housing. Providing capital investment is just like hoping your handicapped child will run a marathon. That's how I feel. If you don't support operations, how can you get any return from that capital investment?

That's where we don't see enough support to our operations. We are given millions of dollars to build homes. Okay, we are doing that, but what happens in the next five years when those homes need repair, or in the next 10 years? How do we maintain those homes and maintain those rental subsidies?

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Okay.

With respect to your experience, what kinds of supports are required to make for successful tenancies among the urban indigenous population?

[Bindu Bonneau]

What I have seen is that giving rental subsidies is not enough. There have to be wraparound supports to those people. They require support for the mental health issues they have. They require support around those. They require support on how to parent their little children. They are not working people. They require support to find jobs.

Only when we provide those kinds of supports can we say we are successful; otherwise, capital investment is not going to win any battle.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Okay.

Can you describe the needs that currently exist in Alberta for urban indigenous housing?

[Bindu Bonneau]

We have seen a huge shortage in the housing inventory. It is inadequate. We see more two-bedroom or three-bedroom homes, when what we need is homes with more bedrooms. This is one need.

The other thing is that we have actually forgotten remote areas. We have provided infrastructure that may be just meaningless. For example, I am from Alberta. Once I went to Conklin, and I was surprised to see a recreation centre worth $30 million built there while people were living in broken trailers. I didn't understand that investment. Who is using that?

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you, Ms. Bonneau, for those answers.

Mr. Byers, I am going to read a quote from you in an article that I read this afternoon.

The federal government needs to implement a distinct housing strategy for Indigenous Peoples in urban and rural settings, and that Canadians are in favour of Indigenous Peoples themselves designing and overseeing such a strategy.

Can you just elaborate—very quickly, in 30 seconds—on how you would see that roll out? If you were in control right now, what would be the first thing you would do to start that process?

[Robert Byers]

I think I would have almost an indigenous CMHC, one that understood the issues, one that could measure the investments and measure the outcomes and really show a focused difference being made.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Byers.

Thank you, Mr. Long.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you to both of you.