Human Resources Committee on Dec. 13th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

You've heard the amendment. Can we vote on the motion as amended?

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

I'd like to thank my colleague for putting forward this amendment, which to me seems incredibly reasonable.

Again, we were not prepared for the minister to come here today and present to us on Bill C-3. Again, it's just very disappointing. I certainly was prepared to have this discussion over this week.

I want to clarify for my colleague from Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound that I certainly would sit here until the new year. I just said it was not my preference, but certainly, if that is what is required, I would be more than happy to do that.

I think we really should think about the precedent this sets and about the respect we have for each of the members of this committee, in that they would come here and be prepared for the minister. As well, I'm sure that the minister, as a good minister and a strong minister, would want to ensure that he heard from all of the members of the committee and was prepared to take their questions on any matter in the bill. I certainly believe that's what he would like to do so that, when we bring this legislation back to the House, he can do it with the utmost confidence that it was evaluated in every way possible.

We're here on day one, heading into hour two, and we're already in this position where, on this side of the House, we're made to feel uncomfortable. I'm sure that our NDP colleague, who I see has been replaced, is also wondering if this is normal. I certainly can assure her that it is not. I think it's very important that we consider the amendment by the member for Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound.

Certainly, it's a busy week for everyone as we head into the holiday season and depart for what will be six weeks, but I have many events this week that I would be willing to move in an effort to accommodate the minister, because I certainly understand that he must have a busy schedule as well. I even have my Christmas luncheon booked with my staff. If I had to, I would be willing to forgo that.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

That will be fun.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

It will be fun. Thank you very much, member for Edmonton Riverbend.

As such, I really think that, when we consider the sacrifices we are willing to make, we can reconsider if in fact the minister can take a look at his schedule. I think this was a reason the government was so intent on bringing a virtual Parliament back to the House of Commons. It's so we can have these types of flexibilities to be able to insert ourselves anywhere at any time—at the last minute even.

If the minister is able to put aside his activities of the day—at the last minute, I'm sure—in Ottawa, which might have been a nice luncheon or, in Newfoundland and Labrador, perhaps an afternoon tea—an Earl Grey tea maybe—certainly he can re-evaluate his schedule again and look for another possible time.

Again, I really hope that he might possibly do that, because certainly it would allow us to have some time to prepare, and we could certainly head into the holiday season with Bill C-3 going back to the House and perhaps even passing, with the confidence that we had addressed all of it. I would certainly feel a lot better finishing my Christmas shopping and doing my Christmas baking knowing that we had evaluated this in its entirety. I think everyone else would as well.

I know the member for Edmonton Riverbend is a relatively new father once again, and I'm sure he would feel better preparing for the holidays with confidence, knowing that we had given this evaluation as well.

I think everyone in this room definitely feels as though Bill C-3 is a priority. We have many members, including our own shadow minister for labour and shadow minister for justice, who believe in this legislation and believe it is important to get it passed. Certainly, it is our duty and obligation to have done a solid evaluation of it.

With the minister's last minute arrival here, I have not even had an opportunity to consult with those shadow ministers to get their ideas as to the kinds of questions they would like to have answered, and what their thoughts might be before we return this bill to the House. We are considering that as well, and it would also be good to get their input.

In addition, we have another colleague who was considering an amendment based on some legislation he was evaluating. It would be great if we could have a conversation with him as well in an effort to try to figure out if we can implement his ideas into the bill, but again, given that we just found out about the minister's appearance this morning, we won't be able to do that in a timely fashion. That's very disappointing, and it will also be a disappointment to this member of our caucus.

As an individual, I always like to be really expedient and get things done as soon as possible. I would like to compliment my colleague, MP Long, for being able to get the minister here so quickly. However, there are also some times when expediency must give way to careful, prudent and thoughtful evaluation, particularly when we're talking about Canadian legislation. This would definitely be a case where it's important to do that.

In fact, the official opposition has shown very good collaboration with the government since the beginning of the pandemic. I recall my previous time in HUMA when we were called at the very last minute, almost in the middle of the night I'll say, in an effort to pass the initial legislation dealing with the pandemic. You know, I think that was also like Bill C-3. It was very valuable and very necessary, and as the official opposition, we did what we had to do to serve Canadians and get things done.

We even did that again when I held the role of shadow minister for families, children and social development in terms of what I saw with the CERB and the CRB. There were different permutations of the legislation, because with every amendment that was made, in fact, another subset of Canadians the legislation did not serve was identified. At that point, we had to go back and amend the legislation again.

I would argue that we're even seeing that again with the CCPD, and unfortunately as well—I know my NDP colleague will agree—with the GIS clawbacks based on the CERB. I'm seeing some mild nodding of heads.

My point is that we've always been agreeable to come and do what was necessary to pass legislation and to get that legislation for Canadians. In fact, we would do the same here, because this is the spirit in which we like to do things, to get things done and to move things forward.

I guess that's why we're so very surprised by the appearance of the minister here today, which, again, is fantastic. As my colleague said, sometimes it's very difficult to get ministers to appear, which has been my past experience.

This minister in particular I know is a very warm, accommodating individual. I know in his previous role as minister for natural resources, a role that's very dear to my heart as a member of Parliament from Alberta, he certainly went out of his way to make all sorts of accommodations to work for both me and my citizens, as well as the citizens of Alberta, and the natural resources sector as well. I certainly can see that he is doing the same thing in this role, by being available to speak on Bill C-3.

I'm sure in his previous career as a journalist, he also had to exhibit the flexibility he is showing here today in being ready and available to talk about Bill C-3, particularly so early in the morning. I've heard from other friends who were anchors and such that you had to get up at 3 a.m. That I'm not sure I'm willing to—

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

I have a point of order, Chair.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

—do. To sit here through Christmas, for certain.

Again, Bill C-3 is very relevant, and it's wonderful that the minister is here to—

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Ms. Kusie, it's a point of order from Mr. Long.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Okay.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Chair, I've not seen an opposition party ever filibuster the appearance of a minister before a committee. I find it incredibly bizarre.

However, I'd also speak to relevance, Chair. I feel like I'm watching the movie Inception. We're about four layers deep here.

I would ask that you rule on the relevance. Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

That is debate, Mr. Long.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Chair, we're filibustering the appearance of a minister before our committee.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

These are valuable points.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Ms. Kusie has the floor.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

As I was saying, the minister and I share a mutual friend, I believe, who appeared on Canada AM several times—Karl Lohnes, a well-known designer. He shares the flexibility and warmth that the minister has as well. The minister, again with his flexibility and warmth—this is also displayed in this friend we have—also has appeared at Christmas in November, an event that I like to attend.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

I have a point of order, Chair.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

I would like to invite the minister to attend that as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Ms. Kusie, we have a point of order.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Yes.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Again, Chair, I question the relevance. The minister is here now. It's typical and beneficial for a minister to appear before a committee at the start of the process, not at the end of a process, for proper questioning from all parties.

Again, Chair, I ask you to rule on the relevance of MP Kusie's discussion. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Long.

Ms. Kusie, could you bring your comments back to the amendment that's currently on the floor?

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Again, I'm speaking to the surprise with which we find the minister here. I was also thinking that we could perhaps get the amendment in both official languages, as I think it would be very useful. Certainly, I know that this is something that is laid out in our routine motions.

I'll continue my remarks in French. I have a little more to say to the committee about the presence of the minister today.

As I just said, it was really a surprise to see the minister here all of a sudden. We think that it's very important to make sure that Bill C‑3 is adopted in the committee, of course, but also in the House before the Christmas break. That said, it's really difficult for us if we can't do our job properly. Our job is to review the bill so that we're ready for the minister's appearance. As I just said, I think that the minister also wants us to be ready to ask him questions.

I think that it's really important to look at the bill beforehand, as we've always done in the past with other bills. Canadians deserve to have bills properly considered. In order to properly study Bill C‑3, we must have the opportunity to ask all the necessary questions and hear from all the relevant witnesses.

I want to check with the chair and the clerk of the committee to see whether the two proposals, meaning the amendment and the motion, are available in French. I would feel more confident if the two proposals before us were in both official languages.

I certainly support my caucus colleagues from Quebec. I'd also like to say that in addition to seeing the amendment and the motion presented in both official languages—

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Mr. Chair, on a point of order, I question the relevance of this.

I also want to respectfully remind my Conservative MP that the minister did send an email to MP Aitchison this morning and acknowledged that he would be appearing virtually. The critic actually said it was understandable and thanked him for letting him know. That was from the critic back to the minister. He said he understood the situation, and he said thank you to the minister for giving him a heads-up.

I'm puzzled by what's transpiring here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you.

Ms. Kusie, if you would, we have Mr. Jeneroux who wants to speak, and then we will go to Mr. Long when you conclude.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you, Chair. I would never want to hold up my colleague here, so I appreciate that.

As I was saying, I take the availability of all of these documents in both official languages very seriously. I wish we could also move on the modernization of the Official Languages Act as fast as we are moving here today, but unfortunately this has not been the case to this point. I will look forward to that at a later time.

I want to thank the committee for listening to my thoughts about the minister. Again, I have very warm and positive sentiments regarding him, not only as an individual based upon my history with him and his work with the natural resources sector but also with his willingness to be here today. I know, in that same spirit of collaboration and flexibility, he will make himself available at a later time when we have had the opportunity to prepare for that.

Perhaps, as I'm done my comments, I will pass to my colleague, the member of Parliament for Edmonton Riverbend.