Human Resources Committee on Feb. 17th, 2022

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Minister, but the current provisions of the Canada Labour Code do not provide sufficient protection, hence your mandate to move the issue forward.

So we hope that the government will come in and strengthen the legislation so that the provisions in this regard are clear. Since 1977, we have had such provisions in Quebec.

My last question will be short. It concerns federally regulated workplaces, such as Canada Post, Crown corporations, transportation companies, as well as federal employees, covered by the mandatory vaccination policy.

To your knowledge, how many workers have been affected in their employment relationship by this policy and are on leave without pay or have been terminated?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Madame Chabot, I don't have a number on how many there are precisely. I have my team with me, so I have no problem asking them. I could begin with my deputy.

Deputy Hassan, do you have that number readily available?

[Sandra Hassan, Deputy Minister, Labour and Associate Deputy Minister, Employment and Social Development, Department of Employment and Social Development]

Ms. Chabot, thank you for your question.

We don't have that specific answer. We have data on the measures that were applicable to federal public servants. So we can follow up on that, but we don't have the data on Crown corporations and separate agencies.

This is an estimate in terms of federal public servants, but we don't have a specific number.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Merci, Madame Chabot.

Now we will go to Madame Zarrillo for six minutes.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here today.

I want to start by saying that my comments are coming from a space of being a woman who has worked for over 40 years in the workforce in Canada in five provinces. My network over those years has obviously been a lot of women. It's important for me to share with you that my perspective is coming from that space.

I'm disappointed today to hear that the consultation for the bill for 10 days of paid sick leave for federal workers was not done before that bill came.... I remind the minister that the NDP amendments were adopted to improve workers' accessibility, and it's still not accessible to workers.

The government has chosen to delay this. I just want to understand on a gender lens. You say that we're months away.... Will there also be disaggregated data and some analysis of the demographics of the workers who have been most affected by this?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

I think most definitely; I will ensure that. We definitely need to know that data and we definitely need to have that data, but you know, as I said in my answer previously, I think it's incredibly important that we get the balance right. We've got to make sure that we get it right and do it right. There are collective agreements that need to be adjusted, as I said, and employers who need to adjust their systems as well. Those things do need to be done, and it's very important that we do it right.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Minister, thank you for that. I would just say that there are hundreds of thousands of workers who have been disproportionately affected by having family caring that they need to do, kids who are sick who really need the support—

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to leave. The fire alarm is going off. I apologize for interrupting you.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Yes, I just wanted to share that: there are hundreds of thousands of workers.

Could I just get a bit of extra time there, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Yes. Continue.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you.

There are hundreds of thousands of workers who are relying on this 10 days of paid sick leave.

I also wanted to talk about another gender equity issue. I'm sure you know that there's a history of unpaid labour in this country and that the underpinnings of where we are in a developed economy rest greatly on the backs of unpaid labour and gender discrimination. It's been a very slow journey to equity and we aren't there yet: in pay equity, in access to affordable child care and in an end to discriminatory access to paid work.

Today, I wanted to talk about one small piece of the mandate letter: to take the lead on the efforts to provide free menstrual products in federally regulated workplaces. I wanted to speak to that small part of it just to ask about this. We know that at work people need to use the toilet during the workday and toilet paper is supplied as a necessary supply for a biological function. As part of the occupational health and safety regulations, there are lines about providing toilet paper, but only one line that speaks to disposal of menstrual products and nothing in regard to providing menstrual products in the workplace. Menstrual products are no different from others for biological functions that happen at work.

For my ask—I think the Conservative member asked you earlier to work with him—I'd like to ask if you would be open to working with me, the FCM and other gender advocates to update the occupational health and safety regulations, to modernize them and to point out how important it is to have access to menstrual products for women in the workplace.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Agreed: Menstrual products are essential to the health of half of all Canadians. It's not treated as a basic need, and I think it's time for that to change. We asked for feedback from women on a potential proposal to amend regulations under the Canada Labour Code, which would require federally regulated employers to provide free menstrual products in the workplace. The results of those consultations were published online in what's called a “what we heard” report. Feedback through the consultation I think provided a fairly wide range of perspectives, and I think it will help to create a dialogue on this issue. I am committed to working with all stakeholders on this, including you. I will take you up on that.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you.

Can I just add this? I did see that and I did read it. Was there consultation when they decided to offer toilet paper in toilets? In occupational health and safety, do you think that there was consultation with people to decide whether or not toilet paper was going to be added?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

I can honestly say that I don't know.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I guess I'm just going to share that there—

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

I think I get your point.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

All right. Thank you.

I also wanted to just follow up on the note that Madame Chabot brought out in relation to those people who have lost their work in federally regulated businesses because they're unvaccinated. Will there be a gender-based analysis on that data as well? Disaggregated data is so important for gender equity, and I just want to understand if that will also have a GBA on it.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Definitely.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Have you concluded, Madame Zarrillo?

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Yes. Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you.

Now we'll go to the second round, which is a five-minute round, and we'll begin with Mr. Benzen.

Mr. Benzen, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Bob Benzen, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here today.

I want to thank you, Minister, for your passion when you spoke earlier about mental health. I'm wondering if you could talk a bit about the cost. Have you thought about the cost? Mental health is something that I think could be quite expensive in terms of how we deal with it.

First of all, have you thought about the cost in that sense and who's going to bear that cost? Is this a cost that's going to be picked up by the taxpayer or by the government? Will it be put onto the businesses? Or is there going to be some combination of that?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Thanks, Mr. Benzen.

First of all, we could get into the cost of mental health. As I said, the number of workers who don't show up every day and the estimated one in three workplace disability claims in Canada that are related to mental health—I think it's $6 billion per year in productivity—are hard to quantify. Somebody, as you said, still has to pay the bill. I would imagine it will be a combination of governments and of businesses. I think that unions, themselves, will also provide great services to many of their members. It will definitely be a combination.

[Bob Benzen, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

We have people like a chief financial officer and a chief strategy officer. You can imagine some day we're going to have a chief mental health officer.

Do you imagine this kind of thing going into businesses more, where there's this sense that maybe we could save money by having these things in place? There's more awareness of it. We're more on top of it. We see the problems arise before they become really big. Is that the goal you're trying to achieve here?