Human Resources Committee on Feb. 26th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Chabot.

I have Mr. Long, Mrs. Roberts and Mrs. Gray.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you, Chair.

Good afternoon, colleagues.

Chair, first and foremost I want to correct what MP Ferreri said about the minister admitting the failure of this government. He did no such thing. He commented generally on the challenges we face as a country, which—I think we all agree—have been unfolding over many years and many governments.

For some reason the members opposite do not want to talk about the provinces and their responsibility with respect to housing and.... I mean, there's question period. I don't believe there's been a question asked of the Minister of Housing for a while now. There are all kinds of other opportunities. The minister has been here personally several times and answered questions.

I also want to hear solutions from the other side, and not just “build the houses”, “axe the tax” and “cut crime”. What are the actual solutions put on the table to build more homes? What I hear right now is, “Blame local mayors.” Again, for some reason—maybe it's because there are Conservative premiers across the country, mainly—there's not a word about the responsibility that the provinces have in this role, so thanks for that.

Again, I just want to reiterate that the minister in no way admitted the failure of this government. I think we know the minister. We know he's trying to deal with a very serious problem. He's called it an emergency himself. It's going to take some time, and I believe we are on the right path. I'll just leave it at that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you.

Next is Mrs. Roberts, and then Mrs. Gray and Mr. Aitchison—I see Ms. Ferreri has her hand up—on the amendment.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

One of the things you said is that we have no plan. We do have a plan. First of all, we have to build homes. We cut the red tape. We encourage builders to build affordable homes so that people have a place to live.

The challenges we're facing today are not in just one area. It's right across the entire country. I spent the week speaking to seniors who now have to sell their homes and move in with their children, because not only can they not afford their home any longer but they can't even afford rent. There are no rental opportunities for them to house themselves.

This is an embarrassing situation. This is not the Canada that our parents and grandparents came to. They came to Canada, a land of promise, and right now that promise is gone. There's no hope. We need to recreate that hope, so why are we not acting more quickly to allow the development of homes so people don't have to live on the streets? I think this is an important issue we all have to face, and we should come together to come up with some solutions.

We have a solution. Let's cut the red tape. Let's build the homes. Let's give people an opportunity to live properly and not on the streets.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mrs. Roberts.

Go ahead, Mrs. Gray, on the amendment.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

To speak to this amendment, which the Liberals have put forth to remove a discussion and debate on housing in the House of Commons, specifically on the housing minister's comments that there's a moral failure in having people live on the streets.... For the Liberals to bring forth this motion to not debate this in the House of Commons just shows that it's not a priority for them, and it's really too bad that they brought this motion forward. I hope the other opposition parties can vote against this amendment to the motion and then vote for our original motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mrs. Gray.

Go ahead, Mr. Aitchison, on the amendment.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

I want to point out that, although my Liberal colleagues may not like the slogans, Conservatives have proposed some solutions. We've proposed all kinds of ideas. In fact, it would be a great opportunity for us to have a conversation in the House about the housing accelerator fund, for example, which we've been promised will deliver more homes by doing deals with cities, which I guess the current government has finally acknowledged is part of the problem in this circumstance.

The fact of the matter is that we've asked for the agreements. We don't know what's in those agreements. All we know is what we can highlight from the news media. Of course, when you dig a little deeper, you find out that the cities they've done these deals with are promising to do certain things, but none of that has actually been put in place.

As an example, permitting fourplexes, as of right, in any residential zone requires a zoning amendment change. Not one of those municipalities has actually done that, so I'm actually calling this the “pay for promises” program, which is kind of the way this government operates. We could talk about that in the House of Commons. However, if we had the opportunity to take the minister's comments, report that to the House and actually ask him directly about the pay for promises program, as opposed to the rewarding results program that a Conservative government would offer....

The point, I guess, is that instead of having those debates in the House of Commons, where we're supposed to have them, this government would rather hide behind their procedures and not talk about this kind of stuff in the House of Commons. I find it disappointing that they have such disrespect for the chamber, but it would be a great opportunity to propose some more ideas instead of just more photo-ops.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Aitchison.

I have Ms. Ferreri on the amendment.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you.

To this amendment the Liberals have put forward that they don't want to speak in the House of Commons and debate and waste—in their words—valuable time talking about the housing crisis, and to my colleague's point that the minister hasn't admitted failure, these are just facts. Rent has doubled. Housing prices have doubled in the last eight years under this Liberal government. Those are just facts.

The point I want to make is that I'd like to go to a vote and see where this is because I think this amendment is bonkers.

To the NDP, I think it is going to be up to them, as we look at their coalition, and where they stand on this. Quite frankly, for somebody who has been so vocal on preventing homelessness and standing up for people who are most vulnerable, I sure hope they don't support this amendment that says don't talk about this in the House of Commons to find solutions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Ferreri.

Ms. Zarrillo, go ahead on the amendment.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I wasn't going to speak to this because this is a political fight between the Liberals and Conservatives, who have both done terrible things over the last four decades to cut supportive housing for people. I wasn't going to speak to it, but I'm really at the end with the Conservatives trying to do their little fishing trips, where they try to throw out comments about the NDP and me and then just clip them and send them around.

This is a serious issue. I'm making serious choices, as well as my NDP colleagues. The Conservatives are not a serious party when all they're trying to do is get clips. I don't appreciate it. I had no intention of supporting the Liberals' amendment. I don't appreciate the taunting, the tempting, the bullying. I don't appreciate it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Zarrillo.

Ms. Ferreri.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

To my colleague, there was no taunting or bullying, and if you don't support that amendment, that's wonderful.

Again, back to facts, to my NDP colleague, through you, Mr. Chair, this is an agreement they put in place. This is not some kind of political jargon. There is a supply agreement in place that is propping up the Liberal government. That is just the fact of what is happening.

We are Conservatives. We are in the opposition, and yes, this is a serious topic.

No, this isn't bullying. This is the fact of what you signed onto, as the NDP, with the Liberals, to give them power. Either you care about homeless people or you don't. That is where things stand right now. I'll appreciate it if you do support his motion, and I will work with you fully to do that, to help people who are most vulnerable.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Ferreri.

Ms. Zarrillo, do you have your hand up again on the amendment?

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I do, Mr. Chair, and I don't think that the political conversation is really helping people in Canada. I don't think it's helping residents, and it's certainly not helping the seniors I saw this weekend. Five seniors passed away recently. Their housing and access to medication is precarious. Their health, in general, is failing due to cuts that the Conservatives brought, generationally, to health care, so I don't really want to get into a conversation like this in committee. This is important work that we need to do, but I think the Conservatives need to stop being unserious and start being a serious party that takes language and their parliamentary duties seriously instead of talking about tag lines and accusations that they know aren't true.

I'm going to say, as an NDPer, that I'm proud of the work we are doing to rebuild the safety net the Conservatives pulled apart, over decades, in relation to housing, health and supporting seniors. We could have this conversation all day, but I don't want to. I want us to get to the business, so I will reiterate again that I won't be supporting the Liberals' amendment and I'd like us to get to Mrs. Gray's motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Zarrillo.

I would remind you—building on Ms. Zarrillo's comment—to keep your comments to the amendment that's on the floor.

Seeing no further discussion, I will call a recorded vote on the amendment of Mr. Fragiskatos.

(Amendment agreed to: yeas 6; nays 5 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Now we'll vote on the main motion as amended. It's a recorded vote on the motion from Mrs. Gray, as amended.

I'm sorry. No, I missed—

[An hon. member]

Are we still going to a vote?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

No. She had her hand up before I got to it—in fairness to Mrs. Gray. I was blocked by the computer screen.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes. I'm not in your sightline here.

Basically, this motion right now isn't calling on the committee to take any particular action, so that's what the Liberals have created here. Now with the amendment, they've stricken taking any particular action from this. It's basically just a statement, so I'm not sure what the purpose is that the Liberals want to create here. If housing is important, there should be.... It's unbelievable, but they took out our discussing this in the House of Commons. It's a real shame.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Ms. Zarrillo, on the main motion as amended.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just want to encourage the Conservatives to ask for an emergency debate in the House. That's what the NDP did, and it was denied. I am concerned that this government is not taking it seriously, and I would encourage them to use those tools in the House of Commons to spark a debate. I'm really disappointed that, when we, the NDP, asked for an emergency debate on homelessness, it was denied to us in the House of Commons.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Zarrillo.

Seeing no further debate, I call a recorded vote on Mrs. Gray's motion as amended.

(Motion as amended agreed to: yeas 11; nays 0 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Order, committee members.

We now resume clause-by-clause.

(Clause 3 agreed to: yeas 11; nays 0)

(Clause 4 agreed to: yeas 11; nays 0)

(Clause 5 agreed to: yeas 11; nays 0)

Shall the title carry?

We'll have a recorded vote on the title.

(Title agreed to: yeas 11; nays 0)

Shall the bill carry?

(Bill agreed to: yeas 11; nays 0)

Before I move to the last part, go ahead, Mrs. Gray.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have two things.

First of all, I want to comment on this legislation before we finish it up here today. This is something that will be there for seniors. It brings equity, regardless of the age of seniors. We had really impactful testimony at committee from a number of seniors on how their lives are affected by crushing inflation and interest rates, so I just want to comment that the work this legislation does will actually help some seniors.

The second thing is that, before we complete here today, I want to table another motion, which has been forwarded to the committee and is in order. I move:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee invite the Minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Official Languages; the Minister of Housing, Infrastructure and Communities; the Minister of Diversity, Inclusion and Persons with Disabilities; the Minister of Labour and Seniors; the Minister of Families, Children and Social Development; and the Minister of Citizens' Services, to separately appear for two hours each with departmental officials to testify on the Supplementary Estimates (C) for the fiscal year 2023-24; and that they appear before the end of the current supply period.

I'm bringing this forward today because I know that there's work that the committee will be doing that will be.... We're going to be looking at the studies coming forward, so this really is the last opportunity to bring this forth. We know that, with the supplementary estimates, there is a timeline we need to meet in order to meet the current supply period, so that's why I'm bringing this forward today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mrs. Gray.

The motion is in order. It was received in time. Is there discussion on the motion by Mrs. Gray?

Mr. Fragiskatos, you have your hand up.